Eager to sign-up for this year’s Explore More Summit? It kicks off April 23rd, 2018 and you can enroll for free at exploremoresummit.com.

It’s your questions this week, folks, and there are so many amazing ones to get to.

KiltmanFL wrote in about AC’s question in episode 203 wanting kink classes in Florida. Kiltman has some great resources for all you Florida listeners.

Bee wrote in with a long thank you note, but basically Bee was inspired to have some really scary conversations with her partner and now some much-needed changes are happening in her relationship. Yay for courageous conversations.

A listener wrote in with a subject line of Virgin. You know I love these. This listener doesn’t want to have sex until marriage but her girlfriend wants to have sex before marriage to make sure it’s a good fit. How can she talk about sex when she’s had zero experience? Among other suggestions, I also recommend Allison Moon’s, “Girl Sex 101”, Barbara Carrellas’ “Ecstasy is Necessary” and “Urban Tantra.”

Jon & Mandi just discovered the joys of anal fisting, but is there a such thing as stylish, above the elbow, silicone safe gloves? They need something practical and pretty. I asked a bunch of experts and offer some input.

Unihorn is having lots of sex via dating apps. Unihorn has never been in a relationship and is worried that all the sex means they aren’t developing the skills needed for a healthy relationship later. Should they be worried? I have thoughts about sex, relationships, and what Unihorn should do.

Betrayed wrote in with a very vulnerable share about an abusive ex-husband, vulvodynia, sexual pain, and dissociating during pleasure. Betrayed asks: How can people still explore sexual things without having the goal be orgasm? How do you know when to stop if you’re not using climax as the finish line? How can I find different ways to enjoy sex in general?

I have so many thoughts and I really hope you savor this because it’s helpful for so many of us.

Patreon supporters – this week’s bonus is a really  juicy clip from my talk with therapist Shadeen Francis for the Explore More Summit. It’s all about honesty versus transparency, especially after betrayal. Her analogies are spot on and she gave me language for feelings I’d held for so long and didn’t know how to articulate. GOOD GOOD stuff.

Follow Sex Gets Real on Twitter and Facebook. It’s true. Oh! And Dawn is on Instagram.

About Dawn Serra

What if everything you’ve been taught about relationships, about your body, about sex is wrong? My name is Dawn Serra and I dare to ask scary questions that might lead us all towards a deeper, more connected experience of our lives.

In addition to being the host of the weekly podcast, Sex Gets Real, the creator of the online conference Explore More, and of the new weekly stream Pop Culture Undressed, I also work one-on-one with clients who are feeling stuck, confused, or disappointed with the ways they experience desire, love, and confidence.

It’s not all work, though. In my spare time, you can find me adventuring with my husband, cuddling my cats as I read a YA novel, or obsessing over MasterChef Australia.

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Episode Transcript

Dawn Serra: This episode is brought to you by the Explore More Summit, starting April 23rd. Are you excited to hear Sunny Megatron and Ken Melvoin-Berg? Because I know I am excited to share it with you. In fact, here’s a super exclusive little clip from their talk at the summit. 

Ken Melvoin-Berg: Well, when we were at ABN, one of the things that I wanted to do was that I saw a lot of my friends that identify women very, very upset about the last election. 

Sunny Megatron: And this was the night of the inauguration, by the way.

Ken Melvoin-Berg: This was the night of the inauguration. I was upset as well. But I don’t think that the level that I was feeling could match anything that they were going through and I couldn’t understand it. So I decided to do something a little bit playful, indulge in a fantasy, but also give other people a chance at retaliation against somebody who they couldn’t retaliate against. So I dressed up like a clown in drag, actually, with a skirt and a funny jacket. Then I put on a Donald Trump mask and a clown nose. I wrote “The Patriarchy” on my leg–

Sunny Megatron: In red lipstick. That’s important.

Ken Melvoin-Berg: In red lipstick. And then I invited whoever wanted to compete on me. 

Dawn Serra: You know you want to hear the rest. Of course, there are so many other experts speaking for free for ten days entirely online. If you go to exploremoresummit.com, you can grab your spot. Of course, if you pre-register, you’ll get free workbooks for every single day of the conference. Full of self-reflective questions and prompts that help you to apply all of the skills and tools and questions that are being offered at the summit to your own life and your own stuck places. I hope to see you there!

You’re listening to (You’re listening) (You’re listening) You’re listening to Sex Gets Real (Sex Get Real) (Sex Gets Real) Sex Gets Real with Dawn Serra (with Dawn Serra). Thanks, bye!

Dawn Serra: Hey, listeners! Welcome to this week’s episode. It is just you and me this week. I haven’t fielded your questions in several weeks and you’ve been sending me such good ones that I wanted to take a little bit of time this week to answer some of those questions because I love getting mail from all of you. So if you’re listening and you ever have a question for me, just go to dawnserra.com and there’s a contact form that you can use to send me your story and your questions. Also, on this week’s bonus for Patreon, a really, really juicy tidbit from a conversation that I had with therapist Shadeen Francis. More on that in a bit. 

Alright. I am up to my eyeballs, probably, actually, 10 feet above my head, preparing for this year’s Explore More Summit. I hope that every single one of you will tune in. The conversations this year are so good. I mean, they’re good every year. And I do this completely selfishly. Because this is one of the ways that I do the most leveling up as an educator and a professional every year. But, this year, I really took probably about three months of doing research on people who were outside of a lot of those sex positivity circles that I swim in because I wanted new voices, new perspectives, people that were doing really important work in the world. I think I delivered. So I hope you check it out. 

Dawn Serra: Okay. Let’s dive into our emails. There are so many, so I don’t know how many will get through today. But let’s start with somebody who wrote in named KiltmanFL for Florida. In Episode 203, I got a letter from someone named AC. They wrote asking about kink classes in Florida. Well KiltmanFL said, “Hey, Dawn! I just caught 203 on Spotify. AC wrote to you about finding kink classes in Florida. I’m a kink presenter in Florida and I can fully support Florida Power Exchange, Florida Leather and Fetish Pride, Beyond Leather and Kinky Camp-Outs. We have an event called FetCon as well, but that is more industry people and less about classes and relationships.” So AC, if you’re listening or if anybody else listening is in Florida and you’re looking for some kinky goodness, that is for you. Thank you so much, KiltmanFL. I appreciate it since Florida is not my stomping ground. 

Bee wrote in with an email that says, “Thank you for everything you do. I’m really not alone.” This is a pretty long email, so I’m going to skip the middle chunk just to get you a basic framework for what it is. But I wanted to share it because it’s really, really meaningful and sweet. It says, “Wow! I can’t believe I’m finally doing this – sending you an email. I’m a longtime listener and said to myself, once I had binge listened to all of your episodes, I would email you. But I had nothing to really say until now. Apologies in advance for the massive essay. 

Dawn Serra: First of all, thank you for everything that you do. I’ve been listening to your podcast now for probably about three years and you have given me the chance to feel empowered through education. Listening to your show each week has made me feel more confident in myself, my sexuality and my needs – emotional, mental and physical. You’ve made me laugh, made me feel uncomfortable and make me cry through all of the compassion, kindness and rage you offer to all of your listeners with their legitimate and problematic questions. You allow me to feel legitimate in my thoughts, values and beliefs. 

Now that I got that out of the way, I want to congratulate you on over 200 episodes and 4 million downloads. I’m right in the middle of listening to the celebratory live edition, Episode 207. One of your listeners asked for some advice about a long term relationship surrounding communication issues and fear of leaving their partner. I have to say that as I was listening to this, I was tearing up. Unfortunately, that’s me right now. So I felt like I had to respond.”

Bee goes on to say that they’ve been in a long term monogamous relationship of six and a half years and that communication has been a problem. Over the past six months, Bee has been filled with doubt and a lot of reflection over where the relationship is going. “When things are great, they’re great. He is attentive, funny, caring and adores me. But the same issues come up over and over again where I am the bearer of the emotional labor to initiate conversation.” So last night, Bee writes, “I’d built up the courage to have one of the hardest conversations of my life. I said to him I can’t change who he is as a person and I don’t want to do that. However, the expectations I have surrounding commitment seemed to be so disjointed about my expectations versus his. So I had to really question if he could give me what I wanted to make me happy. 

Dawn Serra: I had to shift our conversation away from us to me. I asked him to listen and not ask for specific examples of when he had “done something wrong,” because it’s a lot more nuanced than that. After a lot of crying and reading notes from my phone to be really clear on what I wanted to get across, I said to him we have a few options – to take a break, to break up or to see a relationship counselor. And through tears, he said that this relationship was too important to throw away and he will always continue to do better. He agreed that we need to see a relationship counselor. Before I had this conversation with my partner, I thought he was going to give up and say he couldn’t do any more for me. I wasn’t ready to let go of all this part of my life. However, he truly surprised me with saying he wants us to do better. 

Our next move is to research and find a counselor to help us improve our communication. So thank you, Dawn, for all of your help in making me feel confident to have these really fucking scary conversations. All of those awful feelings that I was sitting in, it made me feel like I should act on them. So who knows? Maybe counseling won’t work and I’ll have to reassess. But for now, I am okay because we are going to give this everything. Love, Bee.”

Bee, thank you so much for writing in with this. I know how scary it can be to have conversations and sometimes we’re not sure if now’s the time to have them or if we just need to sit in the discomfort a little while, and then reassess. Thank you so much for sharing this with us and for finding that courage to say the really scary things. I think, so often, we spend so much time in our heads thinking about all the things that aren’t working and not actually truly working on the things that aren’t working. But then we get to these breaking points where it’s all or nothing. I really appreciate that you had this conversation and the two of you made a decision. I hope that that decision leads you both to wonderful places. So thank you so much for listening. 

Dawn Serra: Alright. I got an email from someone, I’m not sure if they want me to say their name, but the subject line is “Virgin.” The email says, “I am 23 and have my first boyfriend. I’m saving myself for marriage, but it was never his plan to wait.” And then in parentheses, “(Though he still wants to be with me and never pushes) He still wants to be with me, but he doesn’t know if he wants to marry someone he hasn’t experienced sex with. He said he’s into some kinky shit. From my martial arts background, I can already tell that I am too, but I just don’t know how to approach talking to him about sex, because I have nothing to base it off of.”

Talking about sex, it’s awkward. It’s just awkward. I mean, you have to practice it. One, no, you’re not alone. Especially when you’re new to sexual situations, new relationship, finding words for so many of these things that we want to talk about can feel so hard. The first thing that I would do is just sit down with yourself and make a list of what are some of the things you’re most curious about. What are questions that you would want to ask him? What do you want to research? Where are most of your curiosities about yourself? What are the things that you want him to ask you? Because often getting clarity around that starts to give us an idea of where we want to start. 

Dawn Serra: I think it also really helps when we have something that’s external from ourselves that helps us to have those conversations. Whether it’s my Sex Mapping game that I sell. It’s only nine bucks and it’s a big long list of questions about sex that the two of you can share. Now, a lot of the questions are about the sex that you’ve had in the past, but certainly there’s questions about where you are today and where you’d like to go. You can also read books like “Girl Sex 101” and “Ecstasy is Necessary” to just start finding some language. “Urban Tantra” is really good. It gives you a chance to say, “Oh. These are the things that I’m interested in. And these are the things that I’d like to talk to you about.” 

And then what you ultimately have to decide is when you use the words “saving myself for marriage,” what does that mean? Does that mean exclusively intercourse? Does it mean penetration in any of your holes? Does it mean no genitals being touched at all? Does it mean no orgasms? Does that mean no mutual masturbation? Or, are a lot of those things fair game? Would you still feel aligned with your values if the two of you mutually masturbated and watched porn together or did some kink that didn’t involve getting naked? Because lots and lots of kink can be done without ever getting naked or ending in any kind of intercourse? I mean, you can do flogging and rope work and domination and submission and abduction and pee play and all kinds of stuff without actually being naked or even needing genitals to be stimulated anywhere. So there’s lots and lots of options. 

Dawn Serra: I think what’s really exciting about where you are, listener, is the sky’s the limit. You can read books about kink like “The Ultimate Guide to Kink” by Tristan Taormino or “Radical Ecstasy” by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy or “The Ultimate Guide to Sexual Fantasies.” I mean, there’s so many great books by educators out in the world and, of course, all the bloggers that are out there. There’s so many sex bloggers that review toys and talk about kink and their journeys in the world. This is your time. Start reading. Start learning. Start noticing where your curiosities are. You can talk about sex without ever having to do it. 

I think that’s something else that people get a little hung up on is this fear of, “If I start talking about sex, then sex is going to be expected?” Well, that’s ridiculous. You can absolutely talk about sex endlessly – Hello! It’s what I do for a living – without ever necessarily having sex with the people that you’re talking to about sex. You’re allowed to set that boundary. So get really clear with yourself first, of what does it mean to say, “saving myself for marriage?” Does it mean no kissing? No groping? No fingering? No masturbation? Or are all of those things in alignment and it’s truly just the act of intercourse that’s off the table? 

Dawn Serra: And then think about things that you want to learn about kink and start practicing having those conversations about things that you found hot in movies or what he means when he says kink and have that list of things that you really want to find out about for yourself and from him, and then start there. But I would highly recommend that you do some self-reflection and just get really clear on your needs, your values and your goals, so that you can communicate those and set the boundaries. Then inside that container, you can play to your heart’s content, all the things that you want to know and learn about and experiment with. Those are all fair game. 

The last thing that I want to talk about is there is a mismatch here in that you are holding the value that you don’t want to have some type of sexual… I have no idea what kind because you just said saving myself. But you don’t want to have some kind of sexual experience until after marriage and he doesn’t want to get married, unless he knows that that sexual chemistry is a fit. This is going to be something that you bump up against and potentially is going to cause some friction down the road. He’s not pushing you now, but at some point one or the other of you is going have to shift and change, either by compromising or giving in, which is not a good feeling. So think about that. If you really would need to hold this value and he really needs to hold his, then this is going to reach a point where the two of you are going to realize it’s not working. So if that’s inevitable, then start thinking about that now. 

Dawn Serra: And ask yourself some really hard questions. Like what’s the point when it becomes a place of, “This is no longer working for me and my values are important to me and I don’t want to compromise on them.” Because you’re allowed to do that. It doesn’t make you a bad person. It doesn’t mean you don’t love him. But it means that your values and your needs are really important. So also start thinking about that because one of you is going to have to give in if you stay in this relationship and you need to really think about what that means for both of you. Who’s giving up what? What are the potential consequences for that. So good luck. Have fun. Do lots of research. Ask lots of questions. Follow lots of bloggers and follow all the sex positive people on Twitter, and then start asking questions. That’s the easiest way to talk about sex is to just start asking questions from a place of genuine curiosity. So good luck.

Alright. This next question is about fisting. For those of you who gets squicked out by that, feel free to jump ahead by a couple of minutes. So John and Mandi wrote to me and it says, “Hi, Dawn! First off, I want to say thank you for everything that you do for the kink community. I’ve almost written to you with questions many times, but I’ll quickly find my answer on your podcast. I’m excited to finally have one that I couldn’t find the answer to on my own. My partner and I just started getting into pegging. I got to say, I couldn’t be happier. Apparently, I’m a natural at receiving and it has opened our sex life up in more ways than just pegging which is beautiful enough on its own. We discovered that anal fisting is a blast and a half and it really turns both of us on a lot. 

Dawn Serra: That brings me to our question. We want to get some sexy gloves for her to wear while fisting me, but haven’t really been able to find anything other than disposable gloves that we know would work. Do you have any suggestions on material to look for or some specific gloves that would be washable, go further up the arm than standard medical gloves, work with silicone lube and preferably look sexy. That might be too picky of me, but I figure it’s 2018! If someone could point us in the right direction, it would be you. Thanks again for being you! Jon and Mandi.”

Oh, my God! I’m so excited for you. I’m so excited that you tried pegging and that receiving is something that feels wonderful for you and it’s led to all kinds of other adventures, including anal fisting. What a wonderful journey that the two of you are getting to go on and feel excited by. So I posed your question in a sex educator group that I am in and I titled it, “Anal fisting experts.” Then I shared parts of your questions and solicited input. The good news is, several people commented. The bad news is, no one has anything that fits your specific criteria. That’s not to say it doesn’t exist. But that is to say it’s unlikely that it does. So here’s a few of the things that they shared. 

Dawn Serra: Allison Moon shared that opera length latex fetish gloves are sold on Amazon and you can find them at pretty much any fetish shop. So, note to self, opera length fetish gloves that are latex. Another person mentioned that nitrile is their preferred material for gloves and for anal fisting. It can take a little work to track them down, but they do have some versions that are extra long and a variety of really nice colors. The great thing about nitrile gloves is that they are compatible with silicone lube. This person says don’t reuse gloves for anal play. So this was followed by another comment by a prolific fisting top. I’m not sure if it’s okay to share their names so I’m not. But it basically said that any material that’s porous or retain bacteria is a health risk to reuse, especially because of microtears in the rectum during anal fisting. So if appearance is a big turn on, then getting those long opera length latex or nitrile gloves is going to be your best option. But use them once and then throw them away because the risk of reintroducing bacteria and germs, especially because of those microtears that are inevitable whenever you’re doing any kind of anal play, is high. So based on everything that the experts shared with me, which, honestly, I was just going to say get some super long nitrile gloves. But now that I’ve had a whole bunch of other people and their eyeballs liking and loving and commenting and saying, “Me too. I agree,” I think the answer is that you’re probably going to want to do a double layer glove, which, what I mean by that is perhaps find yourself some of those opera length latex or nitrile fetish gloves that you can use for fisting their non-porous – that’s important – and they can stand up to silicon lube – also important. 

And invest in some really pretty, sexy gloves or arm cuffs something that just decorates the arm that you put over those gloves until the moment of, “Now, I’m actually putting my hand inside of you,” and then removing the more aesthetic purpose glove to reveal the practical purpose glove, which is then what goes inside. I think there’s nothing wrong with also wearing an upper arm cuff or maybe getting some temporary tattoos on the arm just to dress it up. But I would not recommend something that is washable or removable or made of any kind of fabric or anything that’s porous, which means you’re going to have to go with a latex or a nitrile and you want to make sure that it’s those opera length gloves so that you don’t have to worry about things coming off. I hope that’s helpful to you, Jon and Mandi. I hope that no matter what, the two of you end up enjoying and delighting in all things but because it sounds like you are. So thank you for writing in and for listening and for sharing this with all of us, that we can learn right alongside you. 

Dawn Serra: Okay. Listeners, before I get to this next question by Unihorn about having lots and lots of sex on dating apps, I want to share this clip from my chat with therapist Shadeen Francis for this year’s Explore More Summit. Now, Patreon supporters, if you support at the $3 level and above, you’re going to get a much longer clip. And this conversation is so good. Oh, my god! It’s so good. 

One of my favorite parts about it is Shadeen has a formula for trust that she’s going to share in this clip. And then we have a much longer conversation about why honesty is not really what you want to go for in a relationship, especially after a betrayal. Because honesty is requiring someone to be a seeker of truth. They have to ask the right question in order to get the right answer. It’s something that requires a lot of emotional labor on the part of the person who’s been harmed. So Shadeen has something that we should be doing instead of honesty. This little clip is going to just introduce you to her formula. And then if you support on Patreon, there’s a much longer clip that I’m sharing. Totally exclusive! Literally, no one else in the entire world is going to get this before her talk airs during the conference. But it’s a longer explanation of what her formula means, and then why it’s so important, especially after boundaries have been crossed or betrayal has happened in relationship and how we can actually rebuild it versus just suffering and waiting, which is what lots and lots of people do because I get your emails. So here is a little clip from Shadeen. If you want to hear more, Patreon supporters, patreon.com/sgrpodcast, support at the $3 level or above and you will get a really interesting clip.

Shadeen Francis: Trust equals transparency plus consistency over time. Trust equals transparency plus consistency over time. Most of us hear things or have heard that time heals all wounds. It all gets better in time. Insert other cliche here. While there is truth in that, it is incomplete. That time in and of itself will not be enough to get us out of or through an experience that hurt with another person.

Dawn Serra: Shadeen’s talk is so good. It’s one of the reasons why I put it right up front in the conference because I wanted to frontload with a whole bunch of these really practical, important skills around relationships and communication. We talked about building community. We talked about what happens when we feel so stuck and we just keep having the same fight over and over and over again and what we can do to gain a little bit of perspective. So if you want to hear the full talk, all you have to do is go to exploremoresummit.com and sign up. It’s totally free. If you listen on the days that the talks are airing, you get 24 hours with those three talks, totally for free. Of course, there’s bonus calls and coaching that you can sign up for at a discounted rate if you want that, too. But to actually just listen to the talks and get the workbooks, it’s free. So join me over there. 

Now, on to this question with Unihorn. So, Unihorn says, “Hi, Dawn. I’ve been exploring my sexuality with the use of dating apps these days. I’ve come to realize that I get horny really easily and I have a high sex drive. The thing is, I find that this high sex drive and horniness is clouding my vision from developing relationships with men. I have to add that I’ve never been in a relationship with anyone before at the age of 23. I’ve been on dates, but never in relationship. I’m always down for sex and thus, I tend to find myself skipping through the initial phases of getting to know them on an emotional level. To be completely honest with you, if I may, anytime a guy asks for sex on these apps, I’m almost always down for it, if time permits. Is this something I should take a step back and reflect on? While I like to explore my sexuality right now, I also would like to develop a strong relationship with someone. Should I stop having sex for a while? Or what? I really don’t know. I’m confused. Any advice? Hope to hear from you soon.”

Dawn Serra: I love the question. Thank you for writing in with it and trusting me with it. I have, of course, you know, it’s me… Anybody who’s listened to the show for more than five minutes knows I always have an opinion and thoughts and usually multiple versions of it. So let’s go down the rabbit hole. The first thing is, there’s nothing wrong with being in a place in your life where you’re like, “I just want all the facts.” If you’re being safe in a way that feels good for you and you’re setting boundaries about what you need and what you want and people are respecting them, then do the thing. Have all the sex with as many people as you want. There is nothing wrong with that. Your pleasure is allowed to be your pleasure. If this is your pleasure right now and you feel respected and you feel like you’re having fun and this is something that feels good, great. 

That said, I always think that it’s a great idea for us to reflect on why we want certain things and what they mean. What are the things that are going unspoken? What are the things that maybe we’re afraid of and so we’re doing these other things to avoid the fear? I think the more that we can really dive in to understand our motivations and why we do things or why we want things or why we like things, the more information we have so that we can make better choices down the road. You might not want a relationship right now. Hell! You might not want a serious relationship ever! Guess what? Valid choice. 

Dawn Serra: Our world likes to insist that the most important kind of relationship we could possibly have in our lives is a romantic, sexual relationship with that soulmate, with that one. That we should all want to get married and fall in love and live happily ever after fairytale style. And that’s just bullshit. Some of us want that. Some of us don’t. For those of us that don’t, some of us have been convinced that we do because everything around us tells us that’s what we should be chasing. I just want to start with, you don’t ever have to get into a sexual romantic relationship with someone. Ever. You can have a really fulfilling, wonderful life surrounded by friends and colleagues and community and pets and family, having sex with all of these strangers and that can be your story. It can be a beautiful one. You might, at some point, decide, “Hey. This person is really awesome. I’d like to spend more time with them and maybe create something really rad with them.” When that person presents themselves or when you start noticing that something that you’re craving, then you can do the thing that moves you in that direction.

The one thing I will offer is, I’m not saying this to pathologize because you’re allowed to just totally want all the sex and have all the sex and have that be your full story. It’s not because something’s wrong or something’s broken or you’re doing something that you shouldn’t. Chase your pleasure. If you’re being kind and respectful and you feel like you’re growing as a person and living your best life, then awesome. Sometimes we do things because we’re scared or because we feel unworthy. Sometimes we flit from situation to situation because to set down roots and to get uncomfortable and to be seen and to be vulnerable hurts too much. We’re scared of being seen in that way because maybe we believe that fundamentally we are unworthy. I’m not saying that that’s the case for you, Unihorn. I’m saying a little self-reflection while you’re doing all these things. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. You can certainly be reflecting and journaling and thinking and reading books and sitting with your feelings while you’re hooking up and having sex. There’s plenty of time in the day for all of that. I don’t think it’s a bad idea. Why? Why am I doing this? Is there something that I’m not admitting to myself? Is this exactly what I need right now in my life? And that’s super okay. All of those things are valid and no one can answer those questions except for you.

Dawn Serra: I think the hard thing is you just exist in a society that tells you certain types of relationships are more valuable than others. Just knowing and naming that story might give you a little bit of permission. Take care of yourself the best way that you know how and if, at some point, you feel like, “Hey! I think there’s something I’ve been avoiding.” Then you get to decide whether or not you want to tackle that. So be good to you. Be safe in whatever way feels safe. Be good to the people you’re with and enjoy. 

Betrayed wrote to me with this very vulnerable and pretty lengthy email. I want to read the entire thing because I suspect there’s a lot of you listening who could use hearing this story. It’s something that doesn’t get talked about a lot and I wish more people knew about it. So Betrayed writes in with a subject line of, “Struggles with vulvodynia, sexuality and overcoming abuse.” “Hi, Dawn. First of all, I want to thank you for your podcast. I have had a difficult relationship with sexuality and finding someone who speaks so openly and with such compassion about such a wide range of topics. It’s really helped me to start to feel more at peace with the unknown. I appreciate your insight and willingness to get into the uncomfortable. Here’s a little snip of my story. As I’m sure it’s true with everyone, my story is quite long. So I’ll try and sum it up as best I can. 

Dawn Serra: For the past six-ish years, I’ve been struggling with vulvodynia. I have sought thousands of dollars worth of medical help, physical therapy and counseling. But I’ve still made little progress in “fixing my sexuality.” For the record, I grew up in a stable, religious, conservative family and have no recollection of any sort of abuse, sexual or otherwise happening to me when I was younger. I got married when I was 20 to my high school sweetheart and it wasn’t until the wedding night I learned that intercourse was painful for me. We were both virgins. I am now newly divorced. After learning that my marriage was unhealthy in many ways, including his insistence on sexual acts – primarily PIV – despite how it made me feel. I think probably because of the influence of our religious upbringings, my view on sex was fairly narrow. I was very focused on being a “good wife” and meeting all of my husband’s sexual needs. 

Due to a conversation we had before getting married about desire and expectations, I knew that my husband wanted and expected to have PIV intercourse sex at least three to four times a week. Despite the pain, I did my very best to satisfy him and meet his sexual needs in an attempt to show him that I cared and loved him. I told myself that just as love is not a feeling, but a choice. My choosing to be sexual with him was an act of sacrifice on my part. I just kept hoping one day it would get better. After several years of this though, I was finding it harder and harder to convince myself that I could even pretend to enjoy sex. I believe during the course of our five and a half year marriage, I climaxed maybe a dozen times, though the sensations leading up to it and following were never very pleasant. It’s hard to describe, but it felt as though the orgasm was forced out of me. Like even if you don’t think it’s funny when someone tickles you, but you still laugh. I know now that reaching climax isn’t the end all be all. But in those times, it felt important. 

Dawn Serra: Anyway, more time went by. He was getting more and more dissatisfied with our sex life and began searching out other women. This is another long thing that I won’t get into now. Finally, I made the decision to seek marriage counseling and my therapist helped me to see the dangerous controlling unhealthy parts of our marriage and suggested maybe I ask my husband to let me take a break from anything sexual for a time, so that I could try and reset my body and get away from all of the negative emotions and painful memories I had built up over the years. 

After a time, I think my mind and body had had enough. I would dissociate to high degree or even blackout on a few occasions once anything sexual began between the two of us. After a time, I felt no sexual desire whatsoever and feared I may have become asexual. I don’t, at all, think there’s anything wrong with asexuality in the least. It’s just I once knew what it felt like to experience desire and wanted to be able to feel that again. Sex was highly important to him and he did not take well to this new boundary. Skipping over lots of information and time, I finally got to the limit of no longer feeling safe and I did not want to continue to try and heal our marriage. 

Dawn Serra: It’s now been just over a year since I moved out and I can say that 100% I am in a much happier and healthier space. However, my sexuality still remains an area of pain and frustration. Fast forward. A couple of months ago, a person came into my life who has been unbelievably patient, understanding, gentle, considerate, kind and all around wonderful in everything regarding my body and sexuality. On more than one occasion, my ex told me that no other guy would want to be with me and my “problem.” That was and is a major fear I struggle with. But with this new person, we’ve been slowly and carefully exploring and experimenting with finding ways that make physical and sexual contact feel good and safe. There have been two times now that we’re truly amazing. I broke down crying after because I wasn’t aware it was possible to experience such wonderful sexual feelings. 

However, here is where I finally get to my question. The past couple times we have had another time of exploration, things have been going well. But then, without my wanting to, I dissociate and can’t stay connected in the moment. It’s as if my body just turns off all pleasure receptors and any sort of physical touch feels no different than someone patting the top of your head. As I mentioned, I really want to want this stuff. I just feel so frustrated at my body that it seems to keep betraying me and turning off when I want to be on. How can people still explore sexual things without having the goal be orgasm? How do you know when to stop if you’re not using climax as the finish line as it were? I know I still have a fairly narrow view of sex and sexuality, so I would really appreciate any suggestions you have for overcoming trauma, PTSD, not being able to climax or finding different ways to enjoy sex in general. Thank you so very much for your time. I’m sorry this got so lengthy. I look forward to listening to more of your podcast and constantly finding new information that is helping me on my journey. Thank you for doing what you do. Betrayed.” 

Dawn Serra: First of all, to Betrayed, I am so sorry that you had years of pain and discomfort and having to leave your body because it wasn’t a safe place to be. I want to offer to anybody listening if you’re in a situation like that, you deserve better. I hate that our culture teaches men, specifically, that– All of us get this to a degree, but cis men, specifically, are taught throughout the years that they have a birthright to access their partner’s body and that sex revolves around their penis. I think there are a lot of people out there who are confronting those stories and who are doing different, which is great. But there are far too many people who suffer so much because of this specific belief and behavior. If you’re someone in relationship that gets shitty, if a partner doesn’t offer you sex a certain number of times, check yourself. If you’re a person who’s feeling pressured to have sex with a partner, you do not have to give anyone access to your body no matter how pouty and shitty they become. That’s emotional abuse. 

So to you, Betrayed, I want to say first, I am so, so happy that you have this new person who is willing to explore and experiment and try all kinds of new things. I also just want to offer so much of what you’re asking about is discussed in some of these conversations that I just had with experts for Explore More. I have a couple of resources that I think might be a good jumping off point for you. The first is, there is a somatic bodyworker named Steve Haines, who wrote a book called “Trauma is Really Strange.” There’s another book. It’s their graphic novels that are really easy to read. They’re full of pictures with a little bit of words, but heavily research-based. So “Trauma is Really Strange” and “Pain is Really Strange” are two of the three graphic novels that Steve has put out. I love them and I think that they’re a really approachable way to start understanding why sometimes we disconnect from our bodies. As Steve would say, the fastest way to heal trauma is slowly and he would also say that it’s really hard to be in a body. So, of course, we dissociate. Of course, we numb out. Of course, we leave. Because we’re going through a lot in this world, especially if we’ve had trauma or PTSD. We’ve learned through singular instances and just existing in a world full of oppression that our bodies sometimes aren’t the best place to be. 

Dawn Serra: The first thing I want to offer is that dissociating is, in fact, your body’s way of trying to take care of itself. I know that it feels really frustrating, and then it feels like betrayal. At a very personal level, I understand this so much. The way that my trauma causes me to dissociate in certain specific… in certain circumstances is really frustrating when it happens because I don’t want that to be my truth. Just trying to find a little bit of space around the fact that when you do numb out and when you do have to leave, it’s because your body is trying to take care of you and it’s doing its very best and it thinks this is the best thing that I can do right now. 

There’s lots of different ways to– Well, you have some really good questions that I could fill actually 208 episodes with because I have. But the first thing I want to offer is, how can people explore sexual things without having the goal to be orgasm? I would really recommend Meg-John Barker and Justin Hancock’s book, “Enjoy Sex.” They have entire chapters around removing orgasm as the goal and all of the ways that we can still approach sex and have it be yummy. Pretty much anything by Meg-John Barker is going to help answer that question. But you get to just stop. 

Dawn Serra: I mean, there’s kinds of ebbs and flows whenever you’re doing something sexual of, maybe I’m massaging you for a little while and we’re starting to get hot and heavy and we’re making out, and then one of us has to shift or one of us has to pee or maybe we our bodies get tired in that position and we just take a small break before shifting. That can be a great place to just be like, “Woah. That was awesome. I just want to lay and bask in how awesome that was right now.” And that can be the end. Sometimes penises go soft in the middle of all the things or sometimes you get tired or sometimes somebody falls asleep or sometimes you get a cramp or sometimes you just know, “I want to make out with you for a little while, and then I want that to be it. I just want to make out.” Sure. Sometimes it’s kind of an awkward little stop, but I think there’s always a way to just be like, “Wow. That felt so good. Thank you so much.” And to delight in those sensations and that can be it. I mean, literally, sex – the beginning, middle and end of sex – can be just kissing or hands or toys or a massage with naked bodies or all kinds of things you get to decide. 

I would also recommend “Ecstasy is Necessary” by Barbara Carrellas. That entire book is all about finding the places where we experience ecstasy. Most of them aren’t anything to do with intercourse. It might be kink. It might be fantasy. It might be dance. It might be massage. It might be singing. It could be all these different things. But Barbara helps us to expand into all the different ways that we can experience that ecstasy. So that might be really helpful for you. 

Dawn Serra: One of the other things I want to offer is that Betty Martin, who created “The Wheel of Consent.” She has been a sex surrogate and done work around sexuality, hands on work for something like 20 years. She spoke at the Explore More summit last year. I would highly recommend checking that talk out. One of the things she talks about is that for lots of us, we are so disconnected from our bodies and our pleasure that we don’t even know how to ask for what we want. We don’t even know what touches we like. We literally are just like, “Oh. It’s time to have sex. I put my mouth here. We do this to our genitals and we call it a day.” But what if spirals on the upper left side of your back felt sexual and you don’t know it because you’ve never tried it? 

Betty Martin has this game called the “Two-minute game.” It’s either the “Two-minute game” or the “Three-minute game.” I think it’s the “Two-minute game.” Anyway, it’s two or three minutes that she likes to play that’s all about experimenting with giving and receiving touch and checking in with what do you really want and what feels good. She also recommends following the pleasure. If something feels good, don’t move on from it. The sex escalator is real. This thought that we have in our minds that, “Okay. We’re kissing what comes next? We’re kissing. There has to be something. I guess I should touch you here. Okay. Now, we’re touching here. I guess now that means genitals have to come out. Okay. Genitals are out. I guess we should be moving towards this orgasm.” 

Dawn Serra: Well, what if a neck rub is the most amazing pleasure that you could possibly have in this moment and you just want to stay in the neck rub. Or maybe it’s an ass massage and it just feels so good having someone’s hands going into the muscles and spreading the cheeks apart and moving all that flesh and it feels yummy. You’re getting all these waves of warmth in your body. Why limit that? Stay there. Stay there for two minutes. Stay there for ten minutes. Stay there for half an hour if your partner has the stamina for that or circle back to it and see if it still feels good ten minutes later. We get to be that creative. But it can be hard when we’re holding on to feelings like our body is going to fail us, our body is going to betray us. What if we leave? 

So start small. Betty Martin has had so many clients over the years who couldn’t tolerate receiving touch for more than ten seconds. So guess what? You start with nine seconds. “Hey! You can be here for nine seconds. Awesome. Let’s do something delicious for those nine seconds. Maybe next time we’ll try ten. How’s ten? Can you stay for ten? Oh, my God. We got ten seconds of pleasure in today.” And then experimenting and doing that and then it feels like, “Maybe we can go for 15 seconds. Maybe we can go for 30 seconds. Maybe your limit is around the five-minute mark.” Great. Do delicious things for five minutes and then stop and just settle in and appreciate. “I was here for five minutes in my body. A place that has not been safe for me to be.” Then stop and delight in that. What a gift. And then maybe after you do that a handful of times, you want to try six minutes. “Did you leave at six minutes? Okay, let’s go back to five. Let’s do a couple of five minutes today and just see what happens.” 

Dawn Serra: There is no reason that you have to be in your body super present for hours at a time or for 30 minutes at a time. Start with 15 seconds. Start with 30 seconds. And celebrate and delight in what you’re capable of during that amount of time. Once that starts to feel good, expand it. That’s what so much embodiment work around trauma– Like the latest research around trauma and PTSD is, is around finding the smallest, slowest ways to just ease into the body and find a little spots that are safe, and then leave. Then ease into the body and find places of joy, and then leave. Because that’s you trying to take care of yourself and just slowly, slowly, slowly introducing and incrementing ways to feel safe and anchored in the body. 

So for you, you have this partner who is so tremendously patient and understanding and wants to explore with you, turn this into a game. How can we– “When do I tend to leave? Well, let’s stop just before that moment. Let’s do that a whole bunch, so that I realize this is a really yummy safe thing. And then maybe let’s try just adding 15 seconds or 30 seconds or 60 seconds. Could I stay? Was it safe? Did it feel good?” Know that this is no way linear. If you want to do a lot of research around trauma, I highly recommend Bessel van der Kolk’s book, “The Body Keeps the Score.” Also Peter Levine’s books, “Waking the Tiger” and I can’t remember the other one right now. But he created the somatic experiencing therapy which is actually the therapy I’m in for my trauma and PTSD. 

Dawn Serra: All of that is to say, there are lots of resources out there. That it’s totally okay to feel betrayed. It’s totally okay if you leave your body. Your body is doing the best that it can. There’s all kinds of yummy ways that you can probably play in this space if you just give yourself a little bit of permission to think, “What if today 30 seconds of sensual, delicious erotic pleasure was something that I could experience?” Thirty seconds of delicious erotic pleasure. Lots of people don’t get that in a week. And celebrate it, then say, “Hey, body. Maybe let’s try 45 seconds or five minutes and see what happens”. Notice when you start noticing yourself leaving and maybe the why and maybe not. Following your joy can be one of the best ways to start giving your body an opportunity to feel safe. 

I would also really recommend checking out all of Betty Martin’s work. She’s got all kinds of videos on her website that you can check out. She does talks at a number of different summits. She spoke at Explore More last year and she’s actually speaking at Amy Jo Goddard’s “Sex, Power, and Leadership Conference,” the week after the Explore More Summit” this year airs. So Amy Jo’s conference starts April 30th and Betty Martin is on, I think, Day Four/Day Five of that and that’s free and online, too. So you can go check that out and just see her talk for free and see if you like her style. 

Dawn Serra: But working with a sexological bodyworker or a sacred intimate might be a nice place to have a professional who helps you to just experiment with your body if you want to take some of that labor off your partner. If your partner is super up for it, then read some books, share them together, talk about them and see where you might go. But I’m so happy you’re out of that bad situation and that you’re in a place where, maybe, some pleasure and some sensuality and some erotic are available to you, whether it’s in small or large doses. So thank you so much, Betrayed. Please let me know how things are going. I would love an update. 

Okay. To everybody who listened, thank you so much for tuning in. Don’t forget to grab your spot for the Explore More Summit. It starts April 23rd. It goes for 10 days. It’s free and online. So even if you don’t hear this until May 1st, which is the second of the last day of the conference, you could still get six talks for free. Totally join us and tune in. Really good stuff! Patreon supporters, head to Patreon now and hear that juicy bonus from Shadeen Francis and some thoughts from me. So until next time. I’m Dawn Serra. Bye!