Hello, from New Orleans! Hurricane Nate meant I was stuck in Louisiana for an extra day, but it also meant more time at SisterSong’s “Let’s Talk About Sex” conference.

I share a little about what that conference brought up for me and then…it’s your questions and my answers.

You can see some of the videos from the conference at the show’s Patreon page: http://patreon.com/sgrpodcast

You can also see all of the permissions slips folks wrote in my workshop on Twitter if you look at my feed under #LTAS17.

Horny Virgin needs help with navigating safer sex conversations when you’re engaging in casual sex. How can HV have sex and feel safe? How do you talk about testing and barriers? And, how do you even have sex?

Ali wants to know if she kink-shamed a woman she hooked up with after this woman asked to be seriously injured during their sex without any kind of warning or conversation ahead of time. Masochism and consent are important. Not letting someone know you want them to break bones or skin before getting intimate is NOT consensual.

Ash is a 29-year-old virgin who suffers from self-esteem issues because they’re overweight and feel like a freak. What can they do to find some confidence, to find partners, especially when people ask them to lose weight? Is there any hope?

I have so so much to say about this one. All the feels.

Follow Sex Gets Real on Twitter and Facebook. It’s true. Oh! And Dawn is on Instagram.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Fat activists like Jes Baker, Melissa Toler, Bevin Branlandingham, The Body is Not An Apology

Instagram accounts to check out include: FatWomenOfColor, FatGirlFlow, ThickLeeyonce, BlessMayFatHeart, QueerFatFemme

Explore More Summit has several talks on confidence, bodies, fatness.

About Dawn Serra

I am the creator and host of the laughter-filled, no-holds-barred weekly podcast, Sex Gets Real. I lecture at colleges and universities on sex and relationships, too.

When I’m not speaking and teaching, I also work one-on-one with clients who need to get unstuck around their pleasure and desire.

But it’s not all work! In my downtime, I can often be found watching an episode of Masterchef Australia, cooking up something delicious, or adventuring with my sexy AF husband.

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Episode Transcript

Dawn Serra: You’re listening to (You’re listening) (You’re listening) You’re listening to Sex Gets Real (Sex Get Real) (Sex Gets Real) Sex Gets Real with Dawn Serra (with Dawn Serra). Thanks, bye!

Hey listeners! I am recording this from New Orleans, where there is a Hurricane Nate passing by. I am down here for the Sister Song “Let’s Talk About Sex Conference,” which has been so amazing and challenging and moving and so many things. I have… I don’t know. There’s so many amazing things that have happened this weekend. But to be in a space where I feel so cracked open is such a gift. I mean, last night at the big party, not only were there amazing moving speeches and poetry, which I actually posted videos to the show’s Patreon page that are public. So if you want to see some really moving poetry and speeches about the lived experiences of black women who are doing groundbreaking work and have been for 20 years in reproductive justice, you can go to patreon.com/sgrpodcast. Also, there’s new rewards there, if you want to check those out. But I uploaded three little short videos that I captured. But there was also this amazing fat black woman dance troupe that was so incredible, and also a whole bunch of burlesque dancers. So you can’t go wrong with that.

Dawn Serra: I also hosted a session called “Sex as a Social Skill” that was so amazing. The room literally had no room in it because there were so many incredible people lending their voices to the conversation. We talked about shame and myths, and where we learned about sex and not just the schoolhouse version, but real sex where we learned about that, and the messages that we get. It’s undeniable when you’re in this space, the intersections of sexuality and pleasure with racism and patriarchy and sexism. 

Reproductive justice is about the fact that you we can’t have total autonomy and sovereignty over our bodies when we don’t have access to healthcare, when we don’t have full abortion access, when we can’t make decisions of what we want to do with our body. And that includes things like the prison industrial complex and women in prison who are pregnant, being shackled or being sterilized by force or coercion. It includes these terrible misinformation that we have around teen pregnancy. I mean, there are so many powerful places where all of this comes together under reproductive justice, which is a framework and activism that was entirely founded by black women, and includes trans bodies and gender identity. It’s just amazing. 

Dawn Serra: But one of the things that moved me so much was, almost everybody that’s at this conference is an activist or an advocate. They are social workers or they work with organizations like Planned Parenthood or NARAL or college campuses. I mean, these are people who are either really doing on the ground hard work with marginalized communities or are with organizations that are working for all of these different causes. 

At the end of my session, after everyone had a chance to share some of the shame they were carrying, I asked everyone to give themselves permission. So each person wrote a permission slip. And it really touched me that– I’ve said this in the past, but whether you’re someone who grew up in ultra conservative household, and is just one day into exploring your body or sexuality on your terms or you’ve dedicated your life to the work of autonomy and freedom and pleasure, and helping people to have better access and choices to things like birth control and and health care, we’re all struggling in this soup of pain and shame and oppression. Even people that I know who have massive careers in sex positivity, have deep insecurities, have deep vulnerabilities, have places where they constantly feel like they’re not good enough when it comes to sex or their bodies or the things that they want. 

Dawn Serra: So I want to read you a couple of their permission slips before we jump into some listener emails because I think it’s so important to know that none of us are alone in the places where we need to give ourselves permission. I’m going to zoom through. There’s ten that I pulled out from a stack of 60 and just read through them and let us sit with them for a minute. 

“I give myself permission to recognize and celebrate I’m sexy at any weight or hair length.” “I give myself permission to grieve the loss of a sexual emotional relationship that nurtured me like no other has so far. And to believe that other deeply nurturing, loving connections are out there.” “I give myself permission to accept my STI status without shame, and to be as sexual as I want to be.” “I give myself permission to feel empowered and not ashamed when I reject sex with my partner because I’m not in the mood.” “I give myself permission to engage in an emotionally competent relationship.” “I give myself permission to take rejection and make mistakes as long as I take the time to learn from these experiences.” I give myself permission to masturbate,” – I love that. 

Dawn Serra: “I give myself permission to love my body, to forgive myself for ways I’ve ignored it, and to allow myself to fully embrace my body, and listen to and respect its needs and desires.” “I give myself permission to forgive myself and my 12 year old self. It is not a defining characteristic of my life.” The last one, “I give myself permission to have all the wet, hot, dirty sex that my heart and pussy desire,” – I love that so much. 

There’s some really incredible conversations happening. I think, more importantly, I have been fortified in how much the current sex positivity movement is missing, how much so many of the conversations that are happening in sex positivity are based in well-intentioned places that are also deeply harmful and stigmatizing. We don’t want to hear that, but this hyperindividualistic place of thinking the problem lies with each of us. And that if each of us can just be more confident or be more self-accepting or be taught these different skills around blow jobs. All of those things are important, but they’re a tiny piece of a bigger problem. What really needs to be tackled by sex positivity is community and cultural issues. Because when we have a culture that tells us how to have sex and how much we should be wanting sex, and what kinds of sexual beings we are, that actually is causing more harm. I just have these big feelings. I know I’m changing. I know I’m growing. I feel so grateful to everyone who’s here, and I’m really excited to see what happens next. 

Dawn Serra: I’m also working on a super secret project that’s going to get announced in the next week or so. So definitely stay tuned to that. If you want to see those videos, head to patreon.com/sgrpodcast. You do not have to pay to see the three videos that I uploaded, if you’re interested. We are going to do some listener questions this week since I am holed up in my hotel room at Sister Song. Here we go. 

Horny Virgin, on the verge of exploding, wrote to me. The subject line is, “Safe, casual sex conversation.” “Hi Dawn. I recently started listening to podcast channels and have previously followed a bunch of sex discussion related podcasts, but ended up deleting every other podcast except yours. Yours is the best and the most direct, straight to the point podcast ever. On to my question. I’m a female virgin, 23 this year. I really want to explore my sexuality, go out and have fun, but I’ve never had sex before. Coming from a culture that sees sex as taboo, I don’t know. How does the safe sex conversation come up between two people with regards to condom use and healthy checkup? I mean, what if this person is not my friend and not my partner? I met someone through an online app. I want to know, how does the conversation usually flow? Do people end up taking the test together? If you have any tips for first time sex, that would be very helpful and deeply appreciated. Thank you. P.S. I miss Dylan so much.” 

Dawn Serra: Thank you so much Horny Virgin for the wonderful compliments and for writing in with your question. You have some really good questions, and these are important questions. I think the most important thing to remember is, no matter who we are, at what age we are, and whatever it is we’re interested in, when we’re new to something, it’s just going to be awkward, and we’re going to be unsure. We’re going to make mistakes, and it’s going to be uncomfortable. That’s true of the first time you have a sexual exchange with someone. That’s true the first time you get into a relationship with someone. It’s true the first time you – I don’t know – try painting or driving a car or getting tied up. It’s just, we have to remember and be so patient with ourselves that we cannot expect ourselves to be good at something when we’re new to it. That includes sex even though our culture doesn’t want to leave room for awkwardness, and it’s not very forgiving in that space. 

The primary question that you wrote in with was around safe sex. All of us have different levels of risk that we’re willing to take when it comes to our bodies and pleasure with other human beings. Unless you actually go to a center together, get tested together, and then go back and get the results together, there’s no way to ever be sure that someone has been tested. Now, some people do get paperwork, and they can share those papers showing their test results that are dated and who provided them, and it’s with a verifiable service. That is actually what some people do, who have multiple partners, and who really enjoy casual sex. They actually have the papers from their tests, and they get tested every three months or every six months, depending on how many partners they’ve had. So that’s one way. 

Dawn Serra: What many people do is they ask a question, “Have you been tested lately, and what were the results?” Then they have to make the decision – “Do I trust those results or not?” You have to also keep in mind that many of the tests that are done in clinics or by doctors only test for a certain percentage of possible STIs. There’s a couple of things with that. One, the vast majority of us who are sexual, are going to have an STI encounter at some point in our lives. I mean, you can’t be a human being and not get a cold or not get the flu, if you’re interacting with other human beings. If you’re having sexual encounters with other people, that just automatically opens you up to the chance of maybe encountering gonorrhea or some type of skin rash or herpes or a number of other things. Literally, 80% of people in the next 20 or 30 years are going to end up with HPV. I mean, it’s just what it is. 

You just have to decide what, for you, feels comfortable and safe. If you are meeting up with someone to have a casual sexual encounter, you’re not in a relationship, then the likelihood they’re going to go to a clinic with you and get co-tested, and then share those results with you a few weeks later, is pretty slim. Instead, you have to decide, one, “This person could tell me anything, and they might be really convincing.” They might think they had a test for all the things, and think that they aren’t carrying HPV or dormant herpes or something like that. Or, they might just be lying. Trust me, there are lots and lots of people out there who lie. 

Dawn Serra: When we consider that information, that means that we can be empowered in deciding what we want to do with our bodies. You can use gloves when you’re having sex with hands. You can use dental dams when someone’s using their mouth on your genitals or your anus. You can use condoms for sex. You can use either internal condoms or external condoms for penetration or for anything having to do with a vulva or your butt. Keep in mind that there’s no hundred percent guarantee of safety. Even if you’re using condoms, there are some STI is that can be spread, like HPV, just from skin to skin contact. There’s a lot of skin that’s not covered by condoms. 

And we have to think about, “What’s the reward?” Do we get to feel seen and valued? Do we get to have fun? Do we get to try new sources of pleasure? It’s like, we just have to balance all these things. Every single person’s decision is going to be different. It might be different in each and every situation. You might be feeling one way one day and another another day. It might depend on the partner and what kind of a vibe you’re getting. 

Dawn Serra: The most important thing is for you to just really sit down and think, “Here’s all the options of what might happen with another human being. Here’s all the things that would make me feel good about it.” Then the more complicated part is communicating that and negotiating that with someone. There are a lot of people out there with penises who will try and talk their way out of using a condom or, even worse, will remove the condom during sex because they don’t want to have it on non-consensually, which is rape. 

So you have to make sure you go in being very clear about, “This is what I need to feel safe and to have fun.” If we can create from that space and focus on all the ways to have pleasure, then that’s a much more inviting conversation than all the things you don’t want to do. If you go in and you’re like, “I would really love to have this sexual exchange with you, and it will be so fun to fuck. Here’s condoms. These are really important to me. How’s that feel for you?” If someone’s like, “I really don’t like condoms,” then you can let them know, “OK. Cool. Well, then let’s just use our hands or some toys.” You get to dictate that exchange. 

Dawn Serra: And it’s going to always feel just weird and personal and vulnerable and awkward, especially each time you do it with someone new. But just know that the more you do that, the more that conversation just becomes really natural. There are going to be people who when you have that conversation, reject you or try to make fun of you. That has nothing to do with you and everything to do with their shame. There are a lot of people out there who feel either deeply ashamed of having sexual conversations, who have not recently been tested, and they know it and so they’re trying to deflect. Or, who knew that they have something that’s communicable, and they don’t want to tell you from shame – like Dr. Sheila Loanzon, from a couple of weeks ago, did for a couple of years and is very open about. 

When people freak out in that conversation, it has nothing to do with you. Maybe you delivered it awkwardly or clumsily. But we are not a culture that handles these conversations well because we are never taught how to talk about sex. So just practice in the mirror, think about what you want, what would make you be in a place where you felt safe enough to really explore your pleasure. 

Dawn Serra: Then as far as first time sex, you will never know what somebody else wants or what feels good to somebody else, unless you ask. That goes both ways. You can ask someone what would feel really good, what types of strokes do you like, what type of pressure would feel wonderful, what would really turn you on in this moment. Then do your best to deliver that, and keep checking in. But you also can offer that kind of information to the person that you’re having an exchange with. Like, “I think your fingers would feel really good here. I really like the way your mouth feels.” Just keeping that dialogue open. 

Too many of us have silent sex where we’re trying to pretend to be sexy and pretend like we know what we’re doing. In doing that, we are sacrificing our pleasure and not really getting all the amazingness out of a potential exchange that we could. I hope that you find a casual, delicious, sexual encounter, Horny Virgin, that feels good and safe and mutual for you. Thank you so much for listening and for writing in, and I wish you the very best. 

Dawn Serra: I got a really sweet email from Bryant that says, “Just a super appreciative thank you.” “Hi, Dawn. I just wanted to let you know that I really, really appreciate your podcast. I’ve been polyamorous and involved in the kink scene in Chicago for several years. But I find listening to your perspective and the way you answer questions makes me more conscious of my interests and my relationships. I also deal with depression, so sometimes it’s really challenging to get out and meet people, even if I want to. Listening to your show really helped as I started coming out of my most recent depressive slump. It inspired me to get out there a little sooner and start making plans with someone I’d been chatting with on Tinder. Thank you so much.” 

Ah, you’re so welcome. I hope that whatever Tinder adventure you are on now, Bryant, feels amazing. I can actually hear the leftover hurricane wind outside my hotel room. I am not looking forward to leaving the hotel today. But there it is. 

Dawn Serra: I got this really interesting email from someone named Ali. The subject line is, “Masochism. How far is too far?” “Hi Dawn. I’m a queer woman in their 30s. Recently, I met a younger bisexual woman at a bar. We spent the night flirting and ended with it having sex in my car. We had a couple of phone calls after and decided to hook up again. But this time, rented a hotel room for the night. I’m a kink positive or I thought I was. I enjoy role play, choking, spanking, SM, but this night left me upset and worried about the future safety of the woman I spent it with. 

Very quickly into our night it became obvious my partner was very into masochism, and that was fine. She wanted me to bite her nipples, pull her hair, be rough and dominant. I consented, and it was really enjoyable. This quickly escalated to her asking me to punch her in the face, the ribs, leave bruises and marks. I slapped her once in the face, but it didn’t feel good. She was begging me to hit her as hard as possible to break her ribs, to black her eyes, to choke her until she passed out, to bite her nipples until they bled. I didn’t oblige her and quickly ended the night. Before we parted ways, I told her that she needed to be careful. We had only just met and this type of sex play could end up being very dangerous for her. 

Dawn Serra: I’m worried that I kink-shamed her. I’m also worried about her future safety, especially with men. We did not know each other, and there had been no discussion beforehand regarding safe words or the kink play she had in mind. I don’t think she listened when I told her how dangerous this could be, and maybe I am overreacting. Is there anything I can do to help her engage in this place safely and consensually? Thanks so much.” 

Wow, that’s so intense. That is so intense, Ali. To have that unfold in the moment without it being discussed ahead of time is a lot to ask of someone. Of course, if someone’s deeply into masochism, that is absolutely their prerogative. If they want to be made to look like a panda, which is super a thing and kink. If you get two black eyes, then a lot of people think that’s actually a really adorable panda-y little look. A whole bunch of people love supporting that, but not everybody is into that. Not everybody is into delivering safely the kinds of blows that it takes to offer those black eyes. 

Dawn Serra: I think one of the most important parts of your email is you talking about how you didn’t have that discussion beforehand about safe words or the kind of kink she had in mind. That was not fair on her part. That’s not how a consensual exchange happens on any level. You get to opt in to everything that you have done to you and are going to do. So if at some point she either decided that’s what she wanted, or she went into the night knowing that’s what she wanted, it’s her responsibility to actually be able to communicate that to you, so that the two of you can negotiate what’s going to happen if things go wrong? What are the things that she’s interested in? What are the things you’re willing to do? What happens if she needs to tap out or you need to tap out? I mean, those are all things that need to be discussed before you go into something where someone could seriously get hurt. 

She’s allowed to want to do with her body whatever she does. It’s her body. It’s her experience. It’s her kink. She gets to have those things. It is not kink shaming for you to say, “I did not sign on for this. I feel scared by this.” It’s okay for you to have those big feelings of, “I see all the ways this could go wrong.” Where I do think it’s a little bit more of a gray area is you taking responsibility for her. 

Dawn Serra: Now, if you want to have an ongoing relationship with her, then you can certainly let her know that you’d love to talk to her some more. But to offer the unsolicited advice, and put that on her and take that responsibility on for you… I know that’s coming from a kind place, but I think that’s some pretty murky water. It’s important for people in her life that love her and care about her to hold spaces for her. I think that it’s really great that in the moment, you were just like, “This could go really wrong.” If you do this with someone who really doesn’t understand what they’re doing, you could get really, really hurt. She might not be able to hear that because of a variety of reasons. Maybe she’s been doing this for a really long time, and she’s just like, “What if this is my thing?” Maybe she can’t hear that because she isn’t in a place where she’s ready to examine why she likes these things and why they’re important to her. There’s so many different reasons. 

One, I’m sorry that that happened to you. Because that was not a consensual escalation. Two, I’m really glad that when things started getting intense, you shut things down and said, “This is beyond what I’m willing to do,” and in the moment to express that concern. I probably would have done something really similar. I think that’s just a natural reaction. I think there’s a difference between saying, “Oh, my god. You’re a weirdo. You shouldn’t be doing this, and saying, “I have some concerns, and you really need to be careful because this didn’t feel good. That, I think, is a little bit more about just boundaries and observations. She might receive that as shaming, and we can’t control that. But I think you did the best you could in an unexpected situation. 

Dawn Serra: I think all of us have to remember that we are allowed to want all the different types of sex as mild or as “extreme” – in quotes, because everyone’s extreme is different – as they might be. But we have to make sure that we’re giving people an opportunity to opt in to the activities that they’re going to do, and to opt out of the activities that don’t feel good for them. I’m glad that you were able to care for yourself around that. 

I also just want to say, it’s not your responsibility if she ends up getting hurt. Communally, it’s our responsibility that we aren’t better at having these conversations. Culturally, it’s our responsibility that we aren’t better at knowing how to talk about these things. But as an individual, there’s only so much you can do. You have to decide, “Are you befriending this person? Are you wanting to move into some type of platonic or sexual relationship with this person on an ongoing basis?” Then there might be an opportunity down the road to just ask questions about her wants and needs and stories and experiences, so that it’s less about your fears and values, and more about what’s going on for her, what she wants, what her values are. Then being able to have a conversation from that place. But if this was just a hookup you had in a bar, and you thought it would be fun, and then it super ended up being not, and you don’t want to opt back into that situation again, you’re also allowed to set that boundary for yourself. 

Dawn Serra: Thank you so much for writing in, Ali. Thank you so much for sharing your story, and being so eloquent and sharing it and asking your questions. Please do follow up if there is more to the story or if there’s something else you’d like to add. I’m super curious about what happened next.

Okay, we’re going to do one more question this week since I’m recording this in the hotel, and I have some conference stuff I have to get to. Here is an email from someone named Ash, and the subject line is, “29 year old virgin, body insecurities, meeting people.” “Thank you for taking your time to read this. I started listening to your show and it’s opened a new world of exploration for me. My multiple issues though stop me from trying to experience them. I’m a 29 year old virgin with serious body issues. I’m a little on the heavier side and that has crippled my self-esteem and self-worth. I’ve always felt that if you’re not wanted, you have no worth, and being heavier means no one wanted me. I’ve never been kissed or touched because who would want to with me? 

Dawn Serra: Well, I recently joined FetLife and learned so many new things I want to enjoy and explore. I’ve started talking to some people. My issue is that once they find out I’m heavy, they’ll hate me and think I’ve lied to them. My pictures are of my face, and I have a skinnier face. I did tell someone that I was about to meet, and he seemed so disappointed and annoyed. I let him know that I was actively losing the weight, and it was only 30 pounds. He decided he’d still talk, but only meet after I lost the weight. It proves, again, that no one will ever want me or my body like this.

Also, I’m very sexual besides being a virgin, I’ve done the whole sexting and phone sex before since they can’t see my body. My issue with this is the people I’m talking to don’t know I’m a virgin. And do they have a right to know? It’s hard to explain how a 29 year old is a virgin. I don’t want to seem like a freak. I really don’t know what to do, especially about my body. Any advice you can give would be amazing.” 

Dawn Serra: Ash, I so feel you. This was my story for a long time in so many ways, and a lot of other people’s stories. I just want to start by saying you are not alone. There are so many of us who have these feelings and these fears around our body and our weight and our worthiness. It is not you that is broken. It is the world we live in. It is the culture we exist in. This is not a problem that is your fault. 

Your self-esteem and your self-worth partially come from all of the messages that we’re surrounded by. The messages were surrounded by is that only thin bodies are worthy of respect, of love, of desire, of sex, of money, of raises, of just like anything. To internalize that is normal because it’s everywhere. So it’s not you. You don’t have low self-esteem and low self-worth because you’ve done something wrong. It’s because you exist in a world that is wrong. Just know that you are fighting an uphill battle, That is a feeling that lots of us understand, who are in a variety of bodies that are not seen as worthy. 

Dawn Serra: That said, there are so, so, so, so, so, so, so many people who are pushing back against that narrative and who do see value and beauty and desirability in all kinds of bodies, whether they’re fat bodies or disabled bodies or older bodies or black bodies or any of the other kinds of bodies that our society tells us aren’t worth it. There are so many people who say, “Fuck that. I love bodies of all these different types of intersections.” There are so many people who also really truly are just like, “As long as you’re fun and we have a good time, I really don’t super care what’s going on with your body. I don’t care if you’re using a cane or if you have 100 extra pounds or if you’re older or if you have whatever all of the things that society tells us you shouldn’t have or be.” 

The other thing I just want to note is the only way to be accepted in our culture as someone who is overweight or fat is to be actively trying not to be overweight or fat. It is a shitty, terrible, harmful, traumatizing story. That if you are in a fat body or an overweight body, that the only way you can be acceptable is for you to say, “I don’t want to be this. I don’t want to be me. I don’t want to be where I am.” And it’s a painful, awful thing. 

Dawn Serra: The first thing I want to invite you to do is there is so much power in finding community, in finding people who share these stories, these hurts, these shames, these pains, and who are doing a variety of things to care for themselves, to talk to other people who are suffering in the same way, to share those stories, and to feel fortified and nourished by people who get it. 

Fat activism is an amazing place to start. Following Jess Baker, who’s known as The Militant Baker. Following Virgie Tovar. One of my favorites is Melissa Toler and all of her anti-diet culture work. There are amazing, amazing Instagram feeds that are all about really rad people doing things in fat bodies. One of them is called @fatwomenofcolor. One of them is called @fatgirlflow. There’s another one called @thickleeyonce. There’s actually a documentary coming out about fatphobia called “Fattitude,” the movie, which I cannot wait to see. @thefatsextherapist on Instagram is by Sonalee, who’s been at my Explore More Summit and I adore her. Also, you so want to check out Queer Fat Femme. Bevin Branlandingham has these amazing fat dance parties – “Fat Kid Dance parties” – and everything that she does is so nourishing and rejuvenating. 

Dawn Serra: As hard as it is to not beat ourselves up, it’s just inevitable in a culture that teaches all of us that if we’re not beating ourselves up, then we’re lazy or we’re doing something wrong. But start by surrounding yourself with community. Start by finding your way to leaders in the fat activism and fat acceptance movement. It’s not enough to go with body positivity because so much about body positivity these days is commercial and co-opted and gross. But look to fat activism and fat acceptance. 

There are some beautiful, gorgeous, incredible people and bodies. That is exactly where I started too, was I started reading these articles by Jess Baker, and looking at pictures on Facebook and Tumblr of people who were finding ways to stop apologizing. It gave me the courage to start trying on some new things – to start wearing short dresses, to start trying to not apologize for myself. I have so been there where all your pictures are just selfies from the shoulders up because you’re trying to hide your fat body. 

Dawn Serra: One of the things that I found is, one, people know that trick. Everyone’s been on Tinder and FetLife long enough to know that folks who just have the shoulders up usually are people who don’t want the rest of their bodies seen for some reason. But two, and you can actually hear Cathy Vartuli talk about this at my last Explore More Summit, if you want to check that out in early 2017. Cathy Vartuli and Reid Mihalko, who talked about this space all the time around being really insecure about something, their advice is always lead with the thing you’re most ashamed of. 

The first thing in your profile should say fat or curvy or overweight. I did that in a whole bunch of my dating profiles back in the day. As terrifying as it was, can I just tell you, it filtered out so much crap. The people who still contacted me I knew were people who either just honestly didn’t care. They liked a lot of the other things, and so it was a non issue. Or, actively liked that I was naming the thing, and were like, “Yes, fat bodies can be amazing and sexy and gorgeous.” 

Dawn Serra: I think that’s something to sit with too, of just like, “Can you find some community and start finding some new language and some new stories for yourself? Can you process that grief collectively with others, and also start finding new ways to experience yourself?” Then maybe after you do that a little while, can you find some of the courage to lead with the thing that you’re most scared of being rejected about? So in your FetLife profile, in your dating profiles, can you start with, “I am in a fat body or I am curvy?” Whatever you want to say about yourself. You can use your own language – “I’m plus size.” Then go into the rest of it. 

Because people will just generally be like, “Oh, okay. Well, then I’m not going to talk to this person, if it’s really an issue for them.” And that’s what you want. You don’t want people who are just like, “Ugh, god. I guess,” coming in because that’s exactly what you got with this disgusting human being who said that they were only going to meet you after you lost the weight. That human being is disgusting. He does not deserve a single text, a single email, a single moment of your time. That is absolutely unacceptable. It is dehumanizing, and it is fucking disgusting. 

Dawn Serra: You deserve so much better than that. So if you ever encounter someone who makes a comment about your body and you needing to lose weight or your body looking a certain way or your genitals looking a certain way, that instant, as hard as it can be, because when we have low self-esteem and we feel like we aren’t worthy, we come from this scarcity mindset of, “What if no one else ever gives us this chance? What if this is the only human being that I ever have a chance to maybe touch or talk to?” It can feel like the stakes are super high. But I promise you that’s not the case. 

When someone does that, that immediately tells you everything you need to know. And it is that they don’t deserve one second of your time and energy. So throw that fucker to the curb now, and start finding that community and start finding these stories, and start looking at these Instagrams and Tumblrs. See how that feels for you. See how that shifts the things that you say about yourself, and even maybe join in some courses at Fat Babe Camp or Bevin Branlandingham or Queer Fat Femme has these online Fat Kid Dance parties that are amazing.

Dawn Serra: Be in those spaces and feel seen and held and accepted. Know that, as much as we might crave and want certain types of experiences, we can be fortified and fed by others. Whether you’re having sex or not, to have groups of people who appreciate you and see you and think there is nothing wrong with your body, that you can laugh with and feel seen with, that is powerful. Then that gives you some resilience and some space for navigating some of these other places that are tender. 

As for being a 29 year old virgin, one, it’s not that unusual. Now, our cultural story is that it is. But I can promise you, considering all the emails that I get from people who are virgins in their 20s and 30s, it is not that unusual to be someone who is 29 who has not had sexual intercourse. You’ve had lots of other experiences with lots of other reasons for lots of other things, so that, in no way, devalues you or makes you weird or freaky. People might act like it’s weird and freaky. But that’s only because everything in all the magazines and movies and the TV shows, like to make jokes about that, and to tell all of us that we must be sexual in order to be worthy. But that isn’t the truth. It’s just what’s sold as the truth because it makes money. 

Dawn Serra: You don’t have to explain anything to anybody about your situation that you don’t want to. So if you’re having phone sex with folks and sexting with folks, you do not owe them an explanation about what you’ve done before and with whom. or what you haven’t done. Unless that feels relevant to the conversation. Now, when you’re moving into a sexual encounter with someone, it might be helpful to let them know the things you have not done, if you want things to go a certain way o, maybe things go a little slower. But you, again, don’t owe them that. 

Virginity is not even a thing. It’s so not a thing. I mean, we don’t go around saying, “I have never done all of these things,” and then thinking that it defines our value in some way. So virginity is not a thing. It’s just a set of experiences you haven’t had yet. Having done or not done something doesn’t mean… Come on! We don’t judge people who’ve never had Ethiopian food if they live in an area that doesn’t have an Ethiopian restaurant, if they’ve never traveled to Africa. 

Dawn Serra: Some of us have different kinds of access to different kinds of experiences. That’s just the complexity of being a human being. So you decide what you need to share so that it can be a consensual experience, so that someone can opt in. Now a lot of people are scared of having sex with virgins because the story is that virgins are inexperienced or that virgins are going to get attached and all this bullshit. For just as many people as that’s true for, there are as many people as that’s not true for. The person that I first had intercourse with, it was awkward because the condom got stuck inside me. That’s awkward for anybody. Had I done that particular set of things? No. Not in that way. But I’ve done lots of other things that were super similar and like, “OK. Not a big deal.” Same with anytime any of us tries a new kink. 

If you can, breathe into this space and know all of the pain and the fear and the insecurity you have, those are everybody else’s stories being put on you. You do not have to carry them if you don’t want to. You can set those stories down. You can find community and online spaces that help you to realize you are not alone. There are people out there who have very similar experiences and who value you. So look for some community, look for some new language, try and find some space, and realizing you aren’t what’s broken, it’s everything around you that’s broken. 

Dawn Serra: Then just remember, hooking up and having sex and connecting with people, part of the reason we do that is just because it feels good, and it’s fun. Do as much or as little as feels good and fun. Then leave the rest until you’re ready for it. You don’t have to have sex because there’s some kind of timeline. That’s everyone else telling us we have to be on their timeline. But you get to do whatever you want in your body that feels really good. At whatever speed and rate you want to do it, as long as it’s consensual right. 

So good luck. I have so much compassion for where you’re at because I literally was there for so many years. I will link to a whole bunch of the people in Instagram that I mentioned on the website for this episode. Head to Sex Gets Real, and click on all those people. Thank you so much for listening, Ash. I wish you the very best. 

Dawn Serra: To everyone else who listened, thank you so much all the way from New Orleans and headed back to Vancouver in just a couple of hours because the hurricane has mostly moved on and battered other parts of the Gulf Coast, which sucks for them. I’m also grateful that it was not right here in the heart of New Orleans. But I will be back next week with another episode. Head to patreon.com/sgrpodcast, if you want to support the show, and if you want to see some of the videos that I posted from the Sister Song conference. They are public so anyone can watch them. Thank you so much for tuning in. I will talk to you soon. Bye!