It’s New Year’s Day, 2017. It seems appropriate to start the year off with an intimate show between you and me, including a diary entry of my very first kiss. If you’d like to share your own confession on January’s theme of FIRSTS, then scroll to the bottom of this page for the guidelines and steps to make that happen.

So many of you have written in with heartfelt thanks, and I share a few of them this week.

Then, in response to Embarrassed’s email from a few weeks ago, listener Hannah writes in about the trauma of her labiaplasty and Sarah from yaysex.ca shares her struggle with accepting her vulva appearance.

I also field listener questions about consent and what consent looks like if you need a partner to talk you into sex, whether to stay in a relationship if your partner never wants sex, and what kind of anal vibrator to invest in if you are getting started with butt play.

It’s a packed week and I can’t wait to share it with you.

Follow Sex Gets Real on Twitter and Facebook. It’s true. Oh! And Dawn is on Instagram.

In this episode, I talk about:

• Finding my diary from middle school and high school, which included an entry detailing my very first kiss. I read it in all of its innocence and confusion.
• A ton of the thank you emails I’ve received, including notes from Shelby and purepussy about the show normalizing sex talk.
• Responses I received to a listener email about her vulva’s appearance. Listener Hannah wrote in about the trauma of her labiaplasty and Sarah, from YaySex.ca, who has been on the show before, recorded her own story about her vulva and how it looks. Yay for genital love.
• LeftOut’s email and why she feels left out of consent conversations. She doesn’t feel aroused the way a lot of other people do because she has responsive desire. She needs a partner to initiate even when she doesn’t want it because that’s the only way she feels turned on. Why isn’t her experience ever talked about in the context of consent?
• Should a partner initiate sex if you don’t want it? LeftOut wants that, and needs some permission around her experience and desire.
• Desperately In Love wrote in twice asking for help with her relationship. She is in love with her partner, but he has no interest in sex (he is a rape survivor, has diabetes, and feels sex is dirty). She loves sex, though. Can they make it? He won’t go to therapy, either, and she’s worried that as much as she loves him, this isn’t going to work. What should she do?
• Trusting our partners when they tell us something, especially when we doubt them.
• Feeling unlovable is a powerful thing. That insecurity is so common and can influence our relationships at a deep level.
• That we have a tendency to focus on the things that aren’t working and to minimize the things that are working, which can make relationships feel so much more stressful and bad than they are. We need to question our perspective.
• A relationship can survive without sex, despite a lot of stories that tell us otherwise. You can find ways to get intimacy needs and pleasure needs met without sex in so many ways – it’s just we don’t think about it, so it seems impossible.
• Anal toys that vibrate for listener Ryan who is exploring toys for his butt. Check out the B-Vibe Rimming Butt Plug, uberlube, and Sliquid Sassy for anal pleasure and sex. Also, Cheeky Boy and Duke by Fun Factory from She Bop.

Resources from this episode

Emily Nagoski’s book on desire, “Come As You Are,” as well as her blog, The Dirty Normal.

LadyCheeky.com

Barbara Carrellas’ book “Ecstasy is Necessary” on all the ways we can have ecstasy, including without sex.

About Dawn Serra

In a world hellbent on making us feel like we aren’t enough, Dawn Serra is on a mission to rewrite the stories we’re told about sex, relationships, and our bodies.

Dawn is the creator and host of the laughter-filled, no-holds-barred weekly podcast, Sex Gets Real. She also teaches adult sex ed workshops online and in person, and works one-on-one with clients who need to get unstuck around their pleasure and desire.

When she’s not podcasting, lecturing, or writing about all of the ways we relate to each other, Dawn can often be found watching an episode of Hoarders, cooking up something delicious, or adventuring with her husband.

Dawn’s epic Explore More Summit is unfolding again in early 2017.

Listen and subscribe to Sex Gets Real

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Hearing from you is the best

Contact form: Click here (and it’s anonymous)

LISTENER CONFESSION DETAILS

Are you ready to be part of the show with your juicy, awkward, fun, sad confessions? Now you can be!

January’s theme is FIRSTS, so if you have a story to share about a first in your sexual or romantic history that was meaningful, transformative, disappointing, surprising, or something that you hope to experience soon, I want to hear from you.

Here are the guidelines:

• Subscribe to the Sex Gets Real newsletter (there’s a box in the upper right) because that’s where I’ll be announcing future themes.
• Record your story using your phone, your computer, a recorder, or whatever you have at your disposal. It should be no longer than 7 minutes. Want to leave a voicemail, instead? Just call and leave your story at 747-444.1840.
• Don’t want your voice heard? Type up your story, email it in, and I’ll read it for you.
• Email your MP3 file/story (make it as high quality as you can – both in sound and content) to info(at)dawnserra.com.
• Submission does not guarantee your story will make it on the show, but every submission will be reviewed and considered.
• Deadline for January’s confessions is January 20, 2017.

What should your story be about?

• I want stories that are real – I want to hear the awkward, the disappointing, the surprising, the reality versus the expectation, how the experience changed you or how it didn’t even though you wanted it to. This isn’t about being as explicit as possible, and it’s not about writing erotica. I want your real, true, humanity-filled story including your feelings, thoughts, and the impact it had on you.
• Include a beginning, middle, and end so we have a complete picture of this event you’re sharing.
• It MUST include the theme of the month, though it doesn’t have to be terribly literal. For instance, a “first” may be the first time you felt pleasure or the first time you realized your sexuality was changing or the first time you gave yourself permission to talk to a partner about your past.

Need examples of great personal storytelling?

Listen to The Moth, This American Life, The Heart, or check out the confessions at Erika Lust’s XConfessions.

I can’t wait to hear from you!

Episode Transcript

Dawn Serra: You’re listening to (You’re listening) (You’re listening) You’re listening to Sex Gets Real (Sex Get Real) (Sex Gets Real) Sex Gets Real with Dawn Serra (with Dawn Serra). Thanks, bye!

Happy New Year everyone. It’s 2017 as of the day that this episode comes out, January 1. I am actually recording this on New Year’s Eve. I have the taste of cock on my lips, a bottle of cider next to me, a little negligee on – I’ve been having a very good New Year’s Eve. I decided that this first episode of 2017 should just be you and me. So here we are. I have so many emails from all of you that I’m so excited about. I have actually an expert who felt so moved by previous listeners’ email that she recorded a very personal response. So you’ll be hearing that later. Also, my own confession. We are going to be featuring listener confessions in 2017. Of course, the theme for January is firsts, I want your stories. You can either call and leave me a voicemail. You can record it yourself and email me the mp3, or you can type it out and I will read it on your behalf. All of the details are on the episode page for this episode, which is 142. 

Dawn Serra: I want your firsts. It doesn’t have to be traditional firsts. So it doesn’t have to be first like the first time you had intercourse or the first time you had an orgasm, it can be. But also first, like, the first time you realized you weren’t amazing at sex, or the first time you realized that you were asexual or that relationships weren’t for you, or that your body was actually more amazing than you thought it was. So get creative with your first, but I want your confessions. You can find all of the details about how to submit those to me on dawnserra.com/ep142/ for Episode 142. Let’s dive in. So because confessions are going to be a theme and a way for me to get your voice on the podcast and your very personal stories on the podcast, first of all, I just want to make sure you know if you want to hear the Future themes for the rest of the year. You just need to make sure you’re on the Sex Gets Real newsletter, so you can sign up on the Sex Gets Real website for that. February will be announced in the next couple of weeks. So if you don’t have a first you want to share, then stay tuned for February’s theme. 

I was just at my mom’s house for Christmas and we were helping her clear out a whole bunch of storage, and getting rid of a whole bunch of junk. Because of that, we found boxes full of things that were mine from my childhood, including one of my diaries. This diary was part of middle school and a little bit into my freshman year of high school, and I found this really sweet journal entry that I wrote. It was my freshman year of high school, November 14 1992. It’s a journal post about my very first real kiss. So I thought I would read that to you. I was, gosh, 14, I had just turned 14. The boy that’s in the story was a senior in high school, so he must have been 17. It really had an impact on me which I think you will pick up from my 14 year old perspective. So let me share with you what happened.

Dawn Serra: “Last night was Friday the 13th and Pam’s birthday party. Everyone was there. I slow danced with Kevin, John, and Chris. The best one was with John. Around 10:30pm, I got sick and had to lay down in Pam’s mom’s room. John came in and held my hand, and talked to me. We talked about everything. When I was finally feeling better, and I got up, everyone was already in the hot tub. But I was the only one without a swimsuit besides John. So we curled up in the house, alone – that’s underlined, and talked. He is so confused and hurt. I can’t even begin to explain it. He was having some girl problems, I think.”

“I asked him if he wanted to hug and he did. We hugged very tightly for about five minutes. When we pulled apart, our arms stayed wrapped around each other and our faces were just inches apart. He got this dreamy look in his eyes and I realized he was staring at my mouth. He sort of smiled at me. Then he started closing his eyes and moving forward. I did the same but I was scared shitless our lips touched and his tongue opened my mouth, just like in the movies. His tongue touched mine and we KISSED – that’s an all caps, for a long time. When we finally stopped, I was shaking like an 8.0 earthquake. He held me to his chest and then all of a sudden he pulled away and started apologizing over and over again. I told him he couldn’t hurt me to help him calm down. But I know he could break me so easily. I have never felt so confused or scared and my whole life. Just think, my very first kiss. Yay! I think?”

Dawn Serra: “I’m still shaking from it and it’s 24 hours later. I didn’t get any sleep. At around 4am, I laid down on Pam’s bed because I was worrying myself sick. John came in and I crawled into his lap and told him how scared I was. I’m not sure he understood though. We sat like that until my mom came to pick me up around 8am. When I walked out the door, I turned and said goodbye and hugged him. I hope it wasn’t the last time that we’ll share a special moment together. If it was, I want to remember it for eternity. I was feeling so sleepy and weird that I stayed home today. I haven’t eaten for 24 hours, but I’m not even hungry at all. I’d probably puke it up all anyway. 

Besides all this, Pam’s party was great. I learned how to fast dance. We played fun games and had neat food to eat. Now I know why none of the grown ups that I know want to go back to being a teenager. It’s so confusing and emotional. I also know why it’s called the best of times and the worst of times. It is.” “I told John, everything would work itself out and we would all be okay. But I’m really not sure. I hope it does. John told me to call him if I feel sad. He said he cares for me. Maybe if I cry, I’ll feel better. I hope when I’m older, I can laugh at this entry and know what was going on. I better go now, Dawn.” 

Dawn Serra: John and I actually ended up dating for about three and a half months my freshman year of high school, and he gave me a lot of my firsts. He was the first to touch my breasts over my clothes, and funny enough, I didn’t even know it. But that’s another story for another day. We went to our first winter formal. But the one thing that stands out to me, as I remember so clearly, when he kissed me that I had all of these sensations in my body that I wasn’t prepared for. I had no idea that kissing someone went beyond just your lips touching. I really wasn’t prepared for it. I wasn’t prepared for the enormous sensations that I felt in my body. It was so scary and super confusing. John was actually a really, really, really sweet first boyfriend. But, I just thought that that was such an interesting, sweet, innocent little post from my 14 year old self about my first kiss. So if you have any confessions, and they don’t have to be touching or heartfelt – they can be angry or full of regret or shame. Please share those with me.

So, I’ve gotten so many amazing emails from many of you, and I want to read a couple of them to let you know that I got them. I got an email from Shelby that says, “Thank you. My friend Dustin turned me on, no pun intended to your podcast. I’m so relieved to hear sex talked about without judgment. I’m loving the normality it gives to subjects like kink and anal, instead of pretending that they are dirty, terrible things. You’re doing an excellent job and I can’t wait to listen to all of the older episodes and be on track with all the new ones you put out. Thanks again, Shelby.” 

Dawn Serra: Yay. Thank you so much, Shelby. I love that you heard about the show from a friend and thank you to Dustin. I got a text message the other day that said: “Dawn, I am a new fan listener to your show on Spotify and you fucking rock. Oh my god, the emotions heard in your voice and what that brought up for me on your oppression talk after the election has me falling in love with you as a human being. You are the best. I am an older guy who obviously missed out on a whole lot of second chakra stuff. So rock on you are the best. Best wishes for love and great sex.” 

I wish I had your name so I could tell you, but you will hear that and know. I also got an email from someone named Pure Pussy that says: “Keep it up. I absolutely love your podcast and I’m currently trying to catch up. So much about openness, communication, body and sex positivity, respect and humor that resonates with me. I love the content you get into and the interviews. Your conversations are so important to battle this rape culture we live in. Talking about sex is important. I don’t even have that many friends who are willing. Round of applause and great appreciation to you Dawn and Dylan. I’m a single poly female identified lesbian 90% and Korean adoptee, culturally Irish, in my late 20s, who is exploring kink and poly in New York City and Fetlife. I’m also a photographer who wants to create beautiful images with a darker aesthetic. I’m trying to stay patient on this journey and connecting with like-minded people. You have helped me feel a sense of calm just by listening and laughing, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Much love and lust, Pure Pussy.” 

Dawn Serra: Oh, thank you so much. This email touched me, and I love that you gave the shout out to Dylan. So I will make sure that Dylan also sees this, because she is out having all kinds of shenanigans. So yay, Dylan. So I want to thank all of you. There’s so many others. Those are just a handful that I pulled out saying thank you. I just wanted to make sure that you heard that I had gotten your emails, since I don’t always get back to everybody in a very timely manner. 

A couple of episodes ago, there was someone who wrote in feeling really terrible about the way that their vulva looked, and being worried that the people that she was intimate with were going to be disgusted by the way that her vulva appeared. I actually got an email from someone who had labiaplasty and wanted to talk about it a little bit. So I’m going to share that. Then immediately after that, Sarah from yaysex.ca who was on the show last year, was so moved by that email and had a really personal experience to share with her own vulva that she recorded a little response. So I’m going to share Hannah’s email about her labiaplasty, then Sarah is going to share a little about her vulva. 

Dawn Serra: So Hannah writes: “I stumbled across your podcast and I’ve listened to a few episodes. I love listening to you.” In this note, labiaplasty and Yoni egg, so I’m just going to read the labiaplasty for right now. “The labiaplasty is a difficult subject to cover. I never thought I’d actually get the procedure. It wasn’t anything impulsive. It was something I fought with myself about for years. I felt like it would make me more confident to do all of the fun sexy time things I wanted, but I was too anxious about because of my labia size. It wasn’t bad at all, like one centimeter below majora.” So she’s saying that her inner lips were a little bit bigger than our outer lips. “At the same time isn’t that comfort supposed to come from self- love and acceptance and a loving partner? I feel like I cheated myself in a way by getting the procedure but I did get it – $3,000 for a new pussy. This was probably one of my most traumatic experiences.”

“I lay on the table, knees out, spread eagle, my labia minora is marked up and cleaned for surgery. I looked up at the ceiling while I had the injection nerve block. Then I felt the surgical tools stretching my flesh. Then I felt the incision, not painful. Just the light dull sensation of tissue being sliced. I could almost hear it. That, on top of the smell of sterile air, put me out. Yes, I fainted after the first or second incision. I woke up to my whole body especially my legs, shaking – trauma tremors. I cried a bit and went through the rest of the procedure. But it was awful. I’ll never forget that. I haven’t been able to tell anyone because I’m ashamed I even put myself through such hell. Not to mention it probably makes them self conscious of their bits. I mutilated myself. For what? Self-esteem issues? Give me a fucking break.” 

Dawn Serra: “Anyway, five years later, and I’ve had a lot of oral sex. I’m much more confident about my bits. I don’t care as much either. Through those five years, I became an RN and let’s just say bedside care has given me a reality check of bodies. But more importantly, priorities in life. Thanks for reading. Looking forward to listening to more of your podcast, Hannah.”

Hannah, thank you so much for sharing that. I know that a couple of listeners have written in over the years, concerned about their vulva appearance and considering labiaplasty. I know that way back in the beginning, Dylan and I talked about an article we had read where labiaplasty was becoming a bit of an epidemic in Australia. So doctors were speaking out about the potential sensation loss and the cost – the emotional cost, not just the financial costs. So I really appreciate that you were brave enough to share your personal story with us. I hope that anybody who is struggling with the way that their vulva looks or their genitals, in general, that that might be a perspective they hadn’t considered. 

Dawn Serra: Now I want to share with you something really wonderful that Sarah shared, and when we come back emails from all of you.

“Hi, Dawn and the Sex Gets Real listeners. I have a message for the listener who called themselves Embarrassed, whose letter you read in episode 136. This was a listener who had a large labia and was embarrassed about them, and was asking about whether or not male partners notice or care about the appearance of your labia. I actually have larger internal labia myself. So I have one of those vulvas where I have smaller external labia and my internal labia sort of bloomed out. When I was younger and starting to masturbate, I thought that I was actually growing a penis because I hadn’t really heard about other girls masturbating. I knew the boys did. So if I’m masturbating, I must be a boy and I must have a penis. This really plagued me, this fear, for a long time. I would explore my vulva really, really anxiously at night. Just so nauseous about what I would find in my vulva.”

“I remember the day I realized that I had two of whatever I thought a penis was, and that was really confusing. Because what I was touching were labia and not a penis. As I became sexually active, my first partner didn’t really say anything about my vulva. And thinking that I was really freaky going into that sexual experience, I started to realize that maybe I was more normal than I thought. When I had sex with another woman with a vulva for the first time, I realized that her vulva was very, very different than mine. She had one of those vulvas with larger external labia and smaller internal labia. In fact, she really had no internal labia at all. Seeing her vulva of all that seemed really neat and tidy compared to my vulva, which I perceived as being sloppy or messy, really brought more shame into my life, and I was really worried about what was wrong with me. I thought there was something wrong with me.” 

Dawn Serra: “After that relationship ended, I started sleeping with male partners again, and I didn’t really hear anything about my vulva for a couple years and I sort of forgot that I had this self-consciousness about me. Until I had a partner say that my vulva looked a lot different than his last girlfriend’s vulva. Now being self-conscious, I took that word different to mean bad. But having spoken to that partner since, he assures me that he didn’t mean bad. He meant different like she had a vulva with smaller internal labia and I have bigger internal labia. Over the years, I’ve had a lot of dysphoria about my labia. I’ve pulled at them, I’ve thought about cutting them off myself, just out of the panic of really hating a part of your body. I’ve also looked at surgery and watched documentaries about labiaplasty.”

“Looking back at labiaplasty now, I think it’s a good option for people if they’re really, really, really uncomfortable with their labia, but it also enforces a culturally informed view of beauty and reinforces those self-consciousnesses that we already have. There’s nothing wrong with a vulva with larger labia. The way that the doctors and the documentaries I’ve seen – I haven’t actually gone for a concert so I can’t speak to how doctors actually talk to you. But in the documentaries, they always refer to these surgically enhanced, I guess, surgically altered vulvas as being neat and tidy and clean, which all suggests that vulvas with big internal labia are dirty, or messy or sloppy.”

Dawn Serra: “I have started to think about my self-consciousness more, instead of pushing it away. I’ve started to tell people that I was self-conscious about my labia. I’ve actually shown people that I wasn’t having sex with my labia. And one of them told me once that she was so enamored with the way that my vulva looked, that it was really hard for her to not just dive right into my genitals. We didn’t have that kind of relationship, so it wasn’t appropriate for her to do so.”

“In telling people about my self-consciousness, a lot more people have told me that they really liked the way my vulva looks and feels and tastes, and the texture of it. I found overall that most of my partner’s either absolutely love my vulva, to a fetish level. They just want to put their mouths all over my labia and suck on them or my partner’s really don’t notice that there’s anything different about my labia at all. So I guess to speak to your question: Do men notice or care about the appearance of your vulva? I would say if they do, you should probably dump that person because you’re not going to change your vulva and your vulva is beautiful. And that person has taken in those messages from our culture and from porn, and from those mean plastic surgeons about what a neat and tidy vulva looks like. Really, that’s a rude thing to do to somebody, to tell them that their vulva is messy or dirty.”

Dawn Serra: “You might find if you tell somebody about your self-consciousness, they might turn around and tell you that they’re a little bit self-conscious about the amount that they love your vulva, that they think it’s the sexiest thing ever and they have a really hard time keeping themselves off of you. I hope that helps. It’s a long journey to get to a place where you can be more comfortable with your vulva. As another side note, I think actually taking more pictures of your genitals can sometimes help. It helps you to face your fears and realize some things that you think are sexy about your body. You can also try masturbating in front of a mirror. You can see your vulva in action and maybe get a sense for what it looks like, when you’re not panicking about what it looks like. Embarrassed, I wish you lots of luck. I send you a great big hugs because I know how hard this can be personally. I’m sure you’re always beautiful, and I hope that you can find some peace with your body.”

Dawn Serra: Thank you so much, Sarah. That was amazing. I love that we were able to share that with the world. You’re incredible and so is your vulva. I have not personally verified this, but I’m just saying. Okay, so I have a whole bunch of listener emails and some of them are really deep and really intense. So we’re going to jump into a couple of them. The first is from someone who named themselves Left Out, and the subject is “Why I feel left out of consent conversations.”

“Hi, Dawn. I just got hooked on your podcast. Shout out to Kitty Stryker, her interview with you got me started. I love what you’re doing with it. I relate so strongly to you and your guests, and I love to hear your joy and pragmatism when it comes to sex. I haven’t listened to all of your episodes, and maybe my issue is addressed in one of your earlier ones. If so, please point me in the right direction. I feel left out of conversations about consent. I volunteer for a sex positive organization. I’m a part of the local kink community. I listen to podcasts like yours, and read articles about the consent movement. I’m steeped in it, surrounded by it, and I love that. But my experience is never talked about. I’m alosexual,” which means that she is not asexual, so she experiences sexual desire. “I’m alosexual, and I have a reactive sex drive. Just learning that was a thing was eye-opening to me and really helped me embrace how I experienced sexual desire. I don’t hunger for it. I’m open to sexual experiences. In fact, I’m a very sexual person, but I don’t feel the desire to initiate or pursue sex. In short, I need some convincing. And this is anathema, to the affirmative consent mindset, which I understand. We have a culture that normalizes coercion as a tactic to get sex. I love the idea that as a culture, community, and movement, we only want people to have experiences that they want not that they begrudgingly resigned themselves to”

“So in the big picture, I completely affirmative enthusiastic well informed consent is the best. However on a more personal scale, I’m having a hard time with it. If my partner waited for me to be, “Fuck yes,” about my sexual experiences and took a “Yeah, okay. I guess if you want to,” as a no, we would never get laid. I just don’t work that way. I need someone to get frisky with me, to put their hands on me and just the way I like, then my motor gets running, and “Fuck yes” is on the tip of my tongue. But the idea that we shouldn’t even start without the expressed consent of our partners, and if they seem lukewarm to the idea back off, just doesn’t apply to my experience. I’ve been told both directly and indirectly that the way I do sex is wrong, that anyone who simply acquiesce to their partner isn’t consenting. Anyone who engages with a lukewarm partner is victimizing them. I’ve been told that I’m being taken advantage of, that my partners are monsters, are manipulators, are rapists in waiting. I’ve been told that the only people who are exempt from this “Fuck yes” model are asexual or sex averse, basically, that it’s all or nothing.”

Dawn Serra: “I guess what I’m looking for here is a bit of visibility and permission to have my preferences. I know I’m not the only one who feels this way, and maybe someone else will hear this and realize that they weren’t alone. I would also love to hear your thoughts on how to explain this to people who are steeped in sex positivity and consent culture. Usually I have to start from the ground up. It’s been successful so far, I’ve had great partners. But since my way is left out of the narrative, I’m always starting from the very beginning. Thanks for all you do sincerely, Left Out.” 

What a wonderful, articulate email. Thank you so much, Left Out. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing your experiences and your stories so that we can have this conversation. I love that you know that you have responsive desire. Hopefully you have checked out Emily Nagoski’s Come As You Are book. Hopefully you also follow her blog, The Dirty Normal. There’s so much in the book and the blog about responsive desire – how our brains work, the accelerators and the brakes, what turns us, on what turns us off, or keeps us from feeling desire. So for anyone who is struggling with sexual desire, that can be a really, really wonderful place to start. Emily’s research is fantastic and paradigm-changing for the sex education world. So Left Out, I hope that you already have that resource. But if you don’t, that might be a wonderful place to start and also to give you some new language around what you’re experiencing.

Dawn Serra: So like anything when it comes to consent, there’s a lot of nuance. You said that we live in a culture where consent is not the norm, right? So we live in rape culture. We live in a culture that has hyper-toxic masculinity, which is a model that teaches boys and men to move forward until they get a no or until they’re stopped. And that also teaches women and girls that sex will be taken from them unless they stop it. So that creates a really unhealthy, dangerous dynamic that we’re all swimming in. Then, of course, the cultural stories around us reinforce all of those messages, much like the diary entry that I just shared. We’re taught that taking a kiss without asking for it first, is the way that we’re supposed to do these things. So, the counterculture to that, are these folks who, including myself who are very consent centric. So all of the interactions that we should be having should be based around consent. And consent gets a bad rap a lot of times, but really what consent means is having the social skills to be able to communicate with people. So the words, the body language, the facial expressions, the nuance of, “What is this person communicating to me?” “Have I asked permission to engage with their body or with them?” “Have I received that permission back?” 

So a lot of the consent conversations that we have, because we live in this terrible rape culture and this terrible model that teaches all of us broken ways of relating, tends to be pretty black or white, and pretty basic. But of course, consent has tons of nuance, which, because you heard about the show from Kitty Stryker, you know that there’s so many facets to consent that don’t ever get talked about. Kitty was talking about can you truly consent to sex work if sex work is what pays your mortgage so you don’t have the choice to not do it? Even if you’re saying yes to what’s happening, is that really a yes? If you saying no means you’re homeless, so then you can’t really say no. Same about potentially losing jobs, or the same about certain cultural dynamics that exist in the world. Consent looks very different in different religious communities, in different cultures around the world than it does in Western white culture. 

Dawn Serra: So the first thing I want to say is, your responsive desire is super normal. In fact, as you’ll see from Emily’s research, something like 70 or 80%, of women, and I’m not going to specify cis or trans, because that didn’t really come up in the research. So I’m just going to say women, but 70 or 80% of women have responsive desire. Of course since then, Emily has done additional research around men and found that a high percentage of men actually have responsive desire as well. So the spontaneous desire is something that exists in a much smaller percentage of us, and it’s also highly contextual. So we’re more likely to have spontaneous desire when we’re falling in love with someone, and we’re in that super high oxytocin phase versus later, when those love hormones have worn off. So we’re settling back into our routines that are normal life.

So here’s some of the things that I want you to think about. Consent is about making sure that the people that are interacting with each other, have a complete understanding of the consequences, what’s at stake, what might happen, and that they’re choosing it for themselves. So you can – it’s super valid to express to a partner that you don’t generally experience sexual desire, unless some type of stimulus has presented itself. Now, I do want to invite you to experiment with stimulating yourself. So I have responsive desire and sometimes I will look at someone super sexy, and I’m just ready to take off all my clothes. But for the most part when I’m just like going around my day, I’m in my relationship with Alex, and we’re doing our normal stuff like I don’t feel like having sex in those situations. So something has to happen that then tells my body, “Maybe this is a time to feel sexy.”

Dawn Serra: One of the ways that I do that is if I’ve noticed that I haven’t really felt any kind of sexual energy in a little while, and I want to cultivate that like my mind is making the choice not my body, and I want to cultivate that. Then I will watch some porn or I will pull up ladycheeky.com, and I will find a handful of links that I find super sexy, and I’ll send those to Alex. Then his response is actually what turns me on the most. So I might feel some desire and looking at those beautiful, sexy erotic images. But what really, really ends up turning me on is his response to the images that I sent. So if he gets all growly and aroused, that then arouses me, and then I start feeling like, “Okay, I think my body’s starting to rev itself up.” 

So first, I would ask you, how have you played with and experimented with triggering that sexual response in yourself? That just gives you a little more agency, a little more know how about what might turn you on? For instance, I know that looking at porn is going to turn me on, but my partner’s response to things that I send him is going to be even more so. I understand the nuance of my arousal and the different ways that I get aroused. But coming back to your question, we are allowed to choose the circumstances that define our lives. There are a lot of people who may look at something like an arranged marriage, in a culture where the wife doesn’t have the freedom to survive on her own and make judgment – value judgments around that. But within the context of the culture that she’s in, and the choices that she has available to her, if she chooses to have sex that she doesn’t really want because it’s going to mean a healthier marriage and a healthier living environment for her, we have to be able to respect that context. 

Dawn Serra: Now we can work on the larger global change, but within the smaller, more nuanced ways we all live our lives, we have to realize that everyone’s bodies and needs work. little bit differently. So I want to give you the permission to have the responsive desire that you have, I want to give you permission, that it’s okay to say to your partner, “I may really not feel like sex most of the time. In fact, I usually only feel sexy when some type of stimulus has started.” And if you give that permission to your partner to initiate with you, and then to check in, so it’s not, “I’m going to start doing sexy things with you and just keep going no matter what.” But, “I’m going to start doing sexy things with you see, if you start feeling sexy, and then we decide do we move forward or not.” For me, that’s a very complete nuanced consent conversation. 

You’re choosing to put yourself into the situation, you’re offering an invitation to a partner to do these things. Then you check in with each other. I think that’s a super valid way to have sex. I think there’s lots and lots and lots and lots of people out there who have sex that way. I mean, there have been so many times that I haven’t felt like having sex at all. But then, after a five or 10 minute massage, and I’m starting to feel relaxed, I start feeling a little bit sexy. That’s normal. That’s how responsive desire works. As for explaining to others, I really think that Emily’s book is a great place to start in giving language around that. I also don’t think that you have to explain yourself. Now, if you want to invest in that conversation, and you want to put that energy in, then this may be a time where starting at the beginning is the option because nuance around consent is still really difficult for a lot of people, even people in sex positive circles. But also realize, you don’t have to explain yourself. 

Dawn Serra: It’s perfectly valid for you to hear a consent conversation and to say, “I actually experienced that a little bit differently, and I’m not saying feeling like I want to share. But I just want to offer that maybe people experience things a little bit differently.” And leave it at that. So I hope that was helpful, Left Out. I want everyone listening to know that whether you have responsive desire or spontaneous desire, those things can shift and change depending on where you are in your life, and your hormones, and your health, and the relationships status that you’re in. So allow it to change and engage with it in a playful way. Also, just realize that consent is a lot more than a yes or no, especially inside of our intimate relationships where we can explore those edges and that nuance a little bit more. It would be very different if you’re meeting up with a stranger, and they started pushing you for sex, versus being with someone that really understands you and how you work. So there’s a lot more opportunity for communication to happen that’s both verbal and nonverbal. We have to be a little bit more explicit with folks that we don’t know and we can bring in a little more nuance when we’ve started to establish that familiarity and intimacy. So I hope that was helpful. If anyone has any thoughts or stories along those lines that you want to share, please write in. Thank you so much, Left Out. 

The next email is actually a two part email from someone named Desperately in Love. She wrote to me a couple of weeks ago, and then wrote to me again about a week ago, because the intensity of the situation had increased. So I reached out to her and offered a couple of thoughts and she actually wrote back with a really lovely update, but I want to just share this with everyone. We’ll see where we end up. So the first email from Desperately in Love, the subject line says “Rape Survivor, Sex-Starved Girlfriend and Consent.” 

Dawn Serra: “Hello. I love the podcast. I’m learning so much. I just got done listening to your podcast on consent. My current boyfriend is 10 years older than me. I’m 26 and he has diabetes. He also is a rape survivor. He stated to me that sex makes him feel dirty and he really has no interest in it. When we first got together, I took things slow with him – keeping in mind that he has a trauma past. I always reminded him that he could say no. We have now been dating nine months. I know his diabetes has an effect on a sex drive and ability to perform sexually, but I also feel like his sexual trauma is a contributing factor to his lack of libido. We have had many conversations about this issue. He is willing to see a therapist but they’re so expensive and our insurance sucks, which leaves us without any help.”

“I’m the kind of person who could have sex three times a day and not be satisfied. He’s the kind of person that could go years without it and be happy. I can’t jill off enough to feel sexually satisfied. I’m becoming more depressed and feeling like there must be something wrong with me for him to not want to fuck me. My boyfriend is about holding hands, and I’m about getting pounded from behind. My boyfriend is very vanilla and I’m interested in BDSM. We’ve come to a compromise to perform some kind of sexual act every two weeks, but it still isn’t enough for me. I feel awful, because I feel like I’m pressuring him even though he says I’m not, and that he does it because he loves me.” 

Dawn Serra: “He has told me no matter what, he will never like sex, and that breaks my heart. I want to have sex with him all the time so that I can express how I love him and make him feel good. Because I do love him, Dawn, I really do love him. He is perfect in every other way. When I’m with him, he makes me feel like a princess. I feel so lucky. There’s just this one thing in the way of us being complete as a couple. Am I being an asshole? Am I violating consent? Where do we go from here? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you. You’re amazing, Desperately in Love.”

Then about a week later I received this email: Desperately in Love, subject: “Trauma, Sex Therapy and Chronic Illness.” “Hi, Dawn. I know you probably get tons of emails and haven’t gotten a chance to get to mine yet. I wrote you about my boyfriend having diabetes, being raped and not wanting to have sex with me. Well, since the holidays are here he is meeting my family. I am half Mexican and half white. He is meeting the Mexican side of my family, and this is a huge deal in my culture like borderline beyonce-he-better-put-a-ring-on-it. With all the issues with our sex life and my own insecurities, I find myself trying to stifle my own sexuality. I’m becoming more depressed. I’ve decided to start going to sex therapy. From what I’ve read, this therapist seems to be open-minded, which is hard to find in the bible belt of Texas. I asked my boyfriend if he would consider going with me and he said, “We’ll see,” which usually means. “Stop talking about it. I don’t want to go, but I don’t want to hurt your feelings or make you mad.”

Dawn Serra: “Dawn, I love this man. What if he refuses therapy? What if he isn’t willing to face his trauma? Everybody says that sex and intimacy without sex and intimacy, a relationship cannot survive. Am I setting myself up for failure? I’m terrified to keep wasting my time on trying to help people that don’t want help. I’m a social worker, and I feel like I’m in this alone. I feel like there’s something about me that nobody can love. I’m sorry for bugging you and writing a novel. Thank you for all you do.”

There was so much in those two emails. So I ended up writing privately back to her and offering a couple of tidbits, and she actually wrote back with a really wonderful update – both about her boyfriend meeting her family and her therapist, and all that. But I want to dig in a little bit to the two emails in case anybody else is struggling. 

Dawn Serra: The first thing that really stood out to me about the second email, specifically, was, “I feel like there’s something about me that nobody can love.” I thought that was a really powerful statement. So if we feel like we aren’t lovable, and this is something that I have struggled with and still struggle with. I really still struggle with this lovability narrative. While it’s something that’s gotten better for me, it takes a lot of unpacking and a lot of work, and a lot of feeling shitty. So, I want to say I get that. 

When we feel like we’re not lovable, sometimes we choose to stay in situations that aren’t good fits, because we were worried that no one else could possibly love us. So if this person does love us, and there’s a chance nobody else could, we cling to this person, because we feel like this might be our only chance. Otherwise we’ll die lonely and alone and desperate. Those are the cultural stories that play, too, or we are told that if we’re not partnered, then we’re lonely and useless. And that’s not at all the case. But that forms a really dangerous narrative for all of us. Sometimes we end up making choices that hurt ourselves or that hurt other people. Because we’re so afraid of what the alternative is. Are you staying in this relationship because you’re afraid that you’re not going to find anyone else, that no one else could love you? Are you holding on to this individual, because you’re scared that it’s the only option? Dealing with those insecurities in herself, could free up a lot of space and also change the conversation so that the issues look different and offer a different lens. 

Dawn Serra: I also thought it was really interesting in the first email that she said, “I feel awful because I feel like I’m pressuring him even though he says I’m not.” It’s so important for us to trust our partners when they offer us information. And also to make sure that we’re creating a space where our partners can change their minds. So that’s a dance. All of the things that comes with being in a relationship where it’s a constant dance, and a back and forth. That’s part of what makes relationships amazing and part of what makes them so hard. If he says you’re not pressuring him, and then he’s choosing to engage in sex because he loves you, you have to trust that. You have to trust a partner when they offer that for you. Because if you don’t trust that, there’s a bigger issue and the constant questioning is actually going to create a lot of resentment, and degrade the relationship itself. So trust him. 

Now it’s okay to check in every couple months or a couple of times a year, and just make sure he still feels that way; and/or to let him know, “If at any point this starts feeling bad, I really want you to tell me.” But then trust a partner when they say, “This isn’t something I would choose for myself, but I’m choosing to do it because I love you.” That can be true of kink too. So you might be into – God, I don’t know. You might be into furries and dressing up like animals. And that might be something you’re super into. Your partner might be totally ambivalent about furries and not find them arousing at all, and like, “Yeah, it’s a thing. I get it. People do it, but it’s not for me.” If they choose to dress up and roleplay with you, because you love it so much, that’s a valid choice. Someone doesn’t have to love something in order to choose to do it from a place that’s powerful. 

Dawn Serra: So if your boyfriend, Desperately in Love, is choosing to have sex with you, because he knows it’s important to you – that’s a valid choice. And we have to respect that. We can’t make him want to have sex, we can’t make him love sex, we can’t make him feel differently about sex – that’s a journey that he has to go on for himself. Now, I agree with you. Trauma can have a significant impact on how we feel in our bodies and how we engage sexually. But he has to want to change that. He has to want to go on that journey. So that’s not something that you can do for him. Which brings me to my next question, which is, why do you love him? What about this relationship is powerful and important and makes you happy? 

We have a tendency in relationship to focus on all the things that aren’t working, and to make them more really, really big, which makes all the things that are working feel really, really small. So we have this very skewed unhealthy view of relationships. And this can be true of parents, siblings, people are having sex with, but we all have this innate ability to zero in on the things that make us so irritated and drive us up a wall, or make us feel so broken. Then we minimize the thousands of other things that are going well. So, by really being able to articulate, “These are the reasons I love this person. These are the reasons why this relationship is important to me and feels good.” Then to see that and see, “It’s actually not a very long list, so why am I even in this relationship?” or it’s a really, really long list. Maybe that offers some relief around the tension. Because a lot of being in relationship is also realizing that change will happen, but sometimes we have to be patient with it and then deciding if we want to be patient because we don’t have to be.

Dawn Serra: The bottom line is we can’t change our partners. We can’t make them want to face their traumas. We can’t make them want sex more. We have to decide if a partner doesn’t change or if they change slowly, can you still find a way to be happy and fulfilled with things the way that they are? And that can be a really powerful exercise to sit with. Because the answer might be, “No, I can’t be happy and fulfilled with the way things are.” Then you have to make some decisions. But if you change the way that you’re looking at it, you might find that you actually can be. 

There are a lot of different schools of thought when it comes to relationships. Dan Savage is a great one. Dan Savage really feels like life is too short to stick with someone who’s clearly not a good fit. So we should just end things as soon as possible and move on, and find someone who’s a better fit in all the categories. Then there are other people who think that when you find a relationship that feels good, if there’s a couple of things that aren’t working, that it can be really powerful and valuable to put in the time and the effort and the dedication to help things heal in that space or to find new ways to connect in that space. But that can take a lot of time and energy. So you have to decide which of those two camps feels best for you, and that might change based on each relationship. In one relationship, you might just feel like, “Oh, this is not worth it, I don’t have the energy.” Maybe because your life’s too busy or because of the person. There might be other times in your life with other people and other relationships, when you really do want to put in that effort. 

Dawn Serra: I just want to offer to Desperately in Love that sometimes holding space and giving someone a chance to settle in and feel really safe, and curious can open them up to start examining the places where they’re hurt; and to start questioning the ways that they feel stuck. I’ve experienced this myself. There are some things in my own life that feel very scary and very painful, even now they still hurt, even to just think about. But the more that I feel this space to let my process be at the pace and the speed that it is, the more I’m willing to ask those questions, the more I’m willing to dance towards my edges. If I was feeling forced, then I would go on lockdown, “I’m not budging. I’m not moving. This is too scary. This is too hard.” But we don’t have to put in that effort with everyone. We get to choose whether or not we have the resources for that. 

So my question to you Desperately in Love is, is this relationship one where there’s so many good things, and then there’s one space things feel yucky? Can you create space and patience, and curiosity and an invitation to breathe into that discomfort? Or is this so painful and so misaligned, and so mismatched that you need to make some hard decisions? 

Dawn Serra: The other thing that I want to call out for her email is, she says, “Everybody says that without sex and intimacy, a relationship cannot survive.” I disagree with that. A lot of people will feel very strongly about this, and that’s super okay. We all get to experience these things differently. But my perspective is that from asexuals, to trauma survivors, to folks who simply don’t like sex, to folks who have ended up in a body where sex isn’t that easy or fun or pleasurable. You can get your intimacy needs met, and your pleasure needs met in a ton of different ways. Most people think that sex is the way to make that happen. 

We’ve been told that sex equals intimacy and sex equals pleasure, and that’s the fast track to intimacy and pleasure. But that’s actually not the case. It’s not the only story. If you read Barbara Carrellas’s book, “Ecstasy is Necessary”, you’ll see that the entire book is about endless ways that we can experience actual ecstasy, and very few of them involve sex. So how can we nurture relationships that feel really good and nurturing for all parties? And if sex is something that’s really important to you, then dig into why sex is important to you. This is good for all of us to think about. Why is sex so important? Is it because we think it’s the only way that we can get our intimacy needs met? Is it because we feel like a partner owes us that kind of pleasure? Or is it because sex for us is a transcendent experience? It’s a way to connect at a soul level. It really genuinely has meaning for you. What are the other ways that you can cultivate intimacy, touch, and pleasure that don’t involve sexual intercourse? 

Dawn Serra: There’s going to be a point in all of our lives, if we’re alive long enough, that we are going to have surgeries, illness, experience some type of disability, have so much stress that we just can’t respond sexually to any situation – right after birth, or having a newborn, or a family member’s illness. So all of us are going to go through some type of experience, either once or many times or over a long period of time, when sex really may not be an option. Maybe you’re on bedrest from your pregnancy. Maybe you just had heart surgery – whatever it is. If we do the work now, where we find all of these really yummy, delicious connecting ways, to experience intimacy with a partner, to nurture our erotic creativity, to have pleasure, and touch, and sensation in our lives, that doesn’t include sex, then we have all of these ways now to create connection with a partner. That’s why a lot of people tend to kink. Maybe you have some type of vaginismus, or you have a yeast infection – a chronic yeast infection, or whatever it is, where genital play is off the table. Kink can be a really fun way for people to still be in their bodies, and feeling vulnerable, and connected, and having all this sensation. You can still have all your clothes on and be doing some really sexy impact play.

I invite all of us to start thinking about this because at some point in our lives, we’re going to need to have this and then we get to make choices from a place of knowledge, rather than from a place of fear. So instead of feeling like, “Maybe I should end this relationship, because everyone says sex is important.” Instead examining why sex is important to you, and what it means to you, and other ways to get those same needs met so that you can just have a little more space and permission to then really dig into, “Is this something I want to stay in? Is this something that works for me?” Now you’re making decisions that are based on knowledge and understanding, and spaciousness instead of fear and cultural ideals, and everyone putting their expectations on us, which is where so much of this comes from.

Dawn Serra: Desperately in Love did write back to me and said some really sweet things to me, but also said that he met the family at Christmas and they loved him, and made her heart super happy and she loves him so deeply. She explains why she loves him, and it’s really touching. She’s been seeing this sex positive therapist and she’s feeling really good about digging into her insecurities and understanding her needs, and what her boundaries are, what she wants from her relationship. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at 14, and for a long time after, she stopped self-harming, she used risky sex as another form of self-harm and a destruction of self. So she’s starting to unpack what’s inside of her around sex, and love, and relationships. She says she’s very grateful. She’s excited that she’s asking these questions and doing these things, because it’s life changing. 

So I want to say to you, Desperately in Love, thank you for being so brave to share yourself and thank you for being so brave in asking tough questions. So many of us are so scared to even ask the questions that we just don’t, we just move on. Even to be able to ask the questions out loud and to examine those, and then to start thinking differently. I think that’s another thing is, sometimes we’re willing to say, “Is sex important to us?” Then we immediately say, yes, and close down, and we don’t dig deeper. So the fact that you’re open to changing and growing, and working with a therapist, I think, is a really powerful thing. 

Dawn Serra: In the background, I can hear Alex making dinner and whatever it is, it smells really, really good. I definitely need another drink because it is New Year’s Eve and we are treating ourselves to something super delicious tonight, along with some Naked Sudoku. So there you go. That’s our wild New Year’s Eve. I have one last question that’s about butt stuff. Now, I know I just talked about butt stuff with Kate McCombs and Louise Boucher on the last episode, but I thought this email was super, super sweet. So I wanted to offer a response. 

Ryan wrote to me with a subject line of “Anal Assistance or What’s Up My Bum?” “Dawn, first I wanted to say that I love the podcast. I found it during the summer just after my daughter was born and listening for several hours a day kept me sane and sexual when nothing else was. Your advice, thoughts, and insights helped me understand the ups and downs that my sex life was going through. While helping my girlfriend deal with the body image and desire changes that typically come with giving birth, we have developed an open communication that I think you would be proud of. Now, the openness has led me to a really exciting place: our first anal toys for me. I am not completely new to anal play, and I’ve decided on a set of Jimmyjane plug and prostate stimulator. But I would love a recommendation for a good vibrating one. Any thoughts or lube recommendations would help. I’m so excited to explore amazing sex with my wonderful partner. I promise to let you know what kind of amazing fucking deliciousness comes from it. Best wishes for you and Alex,” which is so sweet, “Ryan.”

Dawn Serra: Oh my gosh, this warms my heart. I’m so excited. Yay for ups and downs, and realizing that’s normal and leaving space for that, and giving yourself permission to have these amazing conversations, as awkward and weird as they might be. And anal toys for you. I love it. So the first thing that came to mind for a vibrating anal toy, and there are lots of different ones on the market, but I’ve seen a number of my sex educator friends highly recommend this one. It’s called the B, letter B, vibe. There’s a dash so it’s B-vibe, remote control vibrating rimming butt plug. Now, this is a silicone butt plug that is remote operated. So it can be for shared play, which is amazing. It’s literally a butt plug, but in the thin part of the plug that sits right at the rim of your anus, right where all of that sensation is, there’s actually a whole bunch of beads that rotate under the silicone. So it feels like rimming is what people say. It has pretty good reviews. I’ve seen a couple of people mention how much they love it. It’s a little bit pricey. I’ve seen it retail from $120 to $150. But it’s also a really high quality vibrating butt plug with a remote control. So if you’re ready to invest, that can be something really fun. 

There are also a couple of other vibrating anal toys out there that you can find at any of the big feminist sex toy shops. So like Self Serve or She Bop! or Smitten Kitten – they do online sales, so it’s worth popping over but I think a B-vibe– I don’t need more drinks, B-vibe remote control butt plug might be a great place to start. Now my favorite lube for anal is Uber Lube. It’s a silicone-based lube, really high quality, it lasts forever. I use it for all my butt stuff. The only thing is silicone lubes and silicone toys don’t always play well together. You need to spot check it. So keep in mind that if you’re getting a silicone toy like the B-vibe and you’re getting a lube like Uber Lube, you want to make sure you do a little spot check on the base or on a part that’s not going in your body; just to make sure they don’t react. A reaction for silicone on silicone that’s bad will feel sticky. If it’s a high quality silicone lube and a high quality silicone toy, sometimes they won’t react and it’ll be nice and slippery. 

Dawn Serra: You can also put a condom over your toys, it takes care of that. If you want a water based lube, Sliquid Sassy Gel is a really thick gel water-based lubricant that can also be really great for anal. So something like that. They also have a silicone – Sliquid has a silicone-base lube, too, that you can check out, but there sassy gel is also one that I have. So invest in a high quality lube. Enjoy that new Jimmyjane plug and prostate stimulator, and decide how much of an investment you want to make in a good vibrating one. If you don’t want to invest in the B-vibe because $130-$150 is too much, I’ve definitely seen ones that are more the $80 range. 

I remember seeing one that I think was called Cheeky Boy, that was a prostate stimulator that vibrates. Fun Factory also has one that’s called Duke. I think the Cheeky Bo is $80-ish and the Duke is around $100. The Duke is a prostate stimulator with a handle that also takes a vibrator that you can insert. I don’t know if it comes with a vibrator. You might have to buy a little bullet separately because Fun Factory makes this little bullet, but any of the sex positive shops out there are probably going to have this so check it out and see if you can find something you like. Ryan, I love everything about your email – butt play and communication, and helping your girlfriend through everything that comes with giving birth and allowing for all that growth and change and– Holy crap, look at where you are now. Getting all that butt love. Thank you so much for listening. That was a really fun meal to get. 

All right, so we’re at the end of our hour. It is New Year’s Day when this comes out. I hope all of you had super fun, sexy, New Year’s Eve, whether that was staying in and going to bed early, or going out and partying it up. I also want your confessions so January – that means up through mid January, I’m accepting submissions from you on your firsts. So call, email me a file, or write it out and send it to me and I’ll read it on your behalf. But I want your stories and your voices as part of this podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. This is Dawn Serra you can go to dawnserra.com to learn more or to send me a message and I will talk to you next week.